Nourishing the Postpartum Body with Cassie Frakes
ABOUT THE EPISODE
I’m so excited to have Cassie Frakes on The Motherscope Podcast today. Cassie is the founder and chef of Luna Nourish where she offers an accessible, convenient way to fuel women’s bodies during their most vital time. Today’s episode is going to shed light on Cassie’s experience as a new mom with postpartum depression and anxiety and how this was a catalyst for her to create Luna Nourish. Food is a symbol of love and brings comfort to everyone, but can be especially helpful to moms during their most vulnerable times. This episode is full of information for soon-to-be or new moms.
TOPICS DISCUSSED
Remembering that focusing on birth is important, but the postpartum experience is just as crucial
Why Luna Nourish was born out of Cassie’s desires to give back to and fully support women after birth
How food is not only fuel for your body, but also a sacred act
Highlighting the systemic inequalities that are failing new moms
Cassie’s favorite meal to cook for new moms
RESOURCES MENTIONED
THIS WEEK’S WRITING PROMPT
Describe your relationship with food over the years. How did it change after becoming a mom?
ABOUT CASSIE
CASSIE FRAKES is the founder and chef of Luna Nourish. She created Luna Nourish to offer an accessible, convenient way to fuel women’s bodies during their most vital time. Cassie is a mother to a very active four-year-old boy. Her pregnancy, labor and those first few months with a newborn were very difficult. The changes her body went through, sleepless nights, hormonal imbalances and breastfeeding all took a toll on her wellbeing. As a trained chef, Cassie takes pride in the meals she creates and the food she enjoys. She is a graduate of the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, New York and has worked in the food and hospitality industry for over 22 years. Cassie believes her most authentic calling is to cook for those around her; it is with food that she shows her love.
As with the mother moon herself, women’s bodies travel through phases and the path to motherhood can be deep and transformative. Through these phases such as fertility, pregnancy, pre/post natal and lactation, women’s bodies all require vital nutrients. Lunas’ menus were created to offer approachable delicious food, packed full of nutrients, that provide love to the mind and body as one. Their goal is aimed to support, uplift and nourish.
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Jackie Leonard 00:06
Hi, Cassie, welcome to the podcast.
Cassie Frakes 00:09
Hi, Jackie, thank you so much for having me. So to get started, can you share just a little bit about yourself? For those who are listening? Sure, absolutely. I'm a San Diego native born and raised. And I have a beautiful, very rambunctious five year old boy named Hudson. And I am the founder and operator of nourish, which is a local meal delivery service here in San Diego, that is focused on nourishing women. But more specifically, postpartum wellness.
Jackie Leonard 00:50
Yeah, and the last few episodes of this podcast have just naturally for some reason, had a lot to do with postpartum in different ways. So I'm really looking forward to kind of rounding that out with somebody who is specifically, you know, catering to moms who are postpartum. Thank you. So that's kind of a nice little. A addition to the past few stories, like I said, today, what you're going to be talking about, will share and go into more about what you offer through your postpartum nourishment. But you're going to talk a little bit about your motherhood origin stories, so can you share that?
Cassie Frakes 01:31
Sure, absolutely. Um, while I mentioned, I have a five year old, and sorry, I just got lost, you can totally edit that out. So I mentioned I have a five year old and I have a background of cooking, and food and beverage, I've always worked full time, I went to culinary school in New York, from 2004 through 2008. And have worked pretty much full time up until the time he was born. And what I did not anticipate, and I think a lot of moms will also share this sentiment is I focused so much on my pregnancy, taking care of the baby once he was born, but I I failed to really understand what myself, my body was going to go through after giving birth. It's incredibly transformative. And unless you've gone through it, you don't necessarily understand it. But you know, there's just this incredible focus on taking care of the baby. And I found myself even though I had a wonderful partner still do. I felt incredibly alone. You know, I like I said, I work in the food and beverage industry. And I've worked, you know, incredibly hard. And so I thought, you know, after the baby was born, I could just do it all myself. I was a one woman show. And, you know, anything that came my way I thought I could conquer and I just never took into fact, how difficult it was going to be. And the incredible range of hormones that your body goes through and the healing process. And so I quite frankly suffered from immense amounts of postpartum depression. I wasn't honest about it with anybody. I actually remember my six week post op appointment with my doctor, you know, sitting in the in the office room and him looking at me straight in the eyes and saying, are you okay? Are you doing okay? How are you feeling? And I just lied to him. I just straight up lied. I said, you know, oh, yeah, I'm doing great. Everything's fine. Baby's great. And I, you know, I thought a lot about why I lied to them. And really, it came down to, I felt alone in the way that I was feeling. I didn't think that it was normal. You know, you read a lot about postpartum and, and you just never think that that's yourself. Oh, no, I don't, I don't feel like you know, harming my baby. And so therefore I am not suffering. But I was I had a ton of anxiety around the care of him. And, you know, not being able to really get through day to day without feeling, you know, really terrible about the decisions I had made to even have a baby. And so, you know, with a ton of therapy and medications and, you know, really being on the other side of that. I can recognize what I went through then. But one of the reasons that Luna nourish really came about is I wanted to be able to support and give back to to new moms. Because I couldn't voice what I needed then. But looking back on it, I know what I needed. And I needed someone to cook for me, someone to care for me someone to do my laundry. And so, you know, through that Luna nourish was born.
Jackie Leonard 05:32
Oh, man, I was not at nodding my head so many times, talking because, and then it felt like redundant. But I was like, No, this is like everything that you've shared not only felt like something that I could relate to. But like I said, the last few episodes especially have really highlighted that postpartum experience. And some of the things that you said were, that really stood out to me were like that you focus so much on the pregnancy, and possibly like the birth versus what comes after. And that's been exactly a very, I've heard that many times. And I felt that way as well. And also this feeling of like, I feel like this is what postpartum depression and anxiety are the mood disorders have been depicted as, and they don't fit what I'm feeling. And so in that way, I feel very alone, or I feel like, this isn't something that I need to talk about, or I, you know, I don't even know what to call it. I just don't feel like myself. Exactly. Which is, you know, it's it's something that I'm still unpacking. So I'm like, Well, if so many of us are saying this, why is this still a thing? You know,
Cassie Frakes 06:45
isn't that interesting, and I don't know where that comes from. I mean, social media can be a tricky thing. And I think it may be fueling some of these preconceived notions of what you know, postpartum and new motherhood may look like, it can be incredibly beneficial to I think, in our case, bringing us together through social media, and providing, you know, women this space to openly talk about, you know, their experiences is wonderful, and I'm so happy to be able to, to even talk to you about it today. But, you know, it's the highlight reels and the newborn, photoshoots. And, you know, visually what, you know, we're expecting to be and feel. And it's not always the case. And I think, you know, at times, women aren't really honest about exactly what they're going through. Yeah, the things that no one tells you,
Jackie Leonard 07:47
right, well, and then when we talk about the highlight reel life and realizing also, it's, there's like, also the highlight of the low the lowest lows, like the extremes. So maybe not just on social media, but even in our like media, or in the shows that we watch, we see a lot of like, the very nice highlight stuff. And then we also see like the extremes where like you said, it was like, I'm not thinking about harming my baby, which is kind of the way that these disorders have been represented. The moms that go off the rails, right, it has been the ones who hurt their kids, right? And think, Oh, well, it's not that and it's not this blissful experience. I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't know what that is.
Cassie Frakes 08:32
I'm somewhere in the middle. And so therefore, there really must be something wrong with me. But I don't want to, I don't want to talk about it. Because I don't know how to label it. I don't know how to describe it. You know, you have this beautiful baby, and you know, everything that you may have hoped and wished for. And yet you don't feel the way that you think you should feel. And so you don't want to talk about it.
Jackie Leonard 08:57
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it some of the words that you used, were interesting to me, because I felt that way where it's like, I failed, I lied. I'm not normal. And, as you've, you know, embraced a career path that is supporting and nurturing moms. I was thinking about the fact that like, while certain things failed you right, because you didn't feel like you were, you know, your doctor, for example, not that, you know, he quote unquote, failed, but like, you weren't feeling safe enough to share, uh, you know, that you were feeling these ways? Because you didn't think it was yeah, you know what I mean, you weren't, yeah, supported or nurtured enough, just systematically to solidly to open up in that way. And so it wasn't even it. I think a lot of times we feel like we don't share we don't do this because, you know, we're being dishonest and it's like, I think we haven't established a culture or, you know, the systems in place to allow moms to have that space to have that grant to be faulty to have thoughts that are not, you know, normal, quote unquote. And so, anyway, that that was something that came up for me.
Cassie Frakes 10:19
No, I completely agree, you know, going down this path of researching different cultures and trying to see, you know, when I was menu of developing and recipe developing for Luna, because I really wanted to focus on foods that were healing, and not not so much physically healing, because I will be honest, I'm not a dietitian, I'm not a nutritionist, I have done a ton of research, I am a chef, I like to make delicious food. But when researching, I wanted to find something that was healing to women's souls, to their minds, something that when they enjoyed, you know, it wasn't just quick, quick, quick eat in the kitchen, while you're standing up in your robe, before you have to go pump again, I really wanted it to be an experience for them. And a nice treat for them. But what I was saying is, when doing recipe development and researching other cultures, in China, the first 40 days after a mom gives birth is sacred. They are absolutely catered to, they stay in their rooms. You know, people come in, bring them gifts, and massage their bodies. And it's a beautiful time for the mother and the baby to bond. You know, there's no visitors other than what is being given to the mom, you know, nobody's coming over, trying to take pictures or hold the baby. It's a beautiful sacred time and same in India, and they have special you know, postpartum porridges, and warming foods that heat from the inside out. To really help and nurture the mom. And it's just, it's a shame, but we just don't do that in our culture. It's, you know, I was looking at magazines, and you know, the, the princess, the Duchess, you know, she's a day post op with hair and makeup standing in front of the hospital with her baby in her arms. And I just, I can't help but think like, she doesn't want to be in high heels. She wants to be in home in bed with her baby and someone taking care of her. So, um, it is a shame. It's an it's an absolute shame that it's not in doctrine into our culture here.
Jackie Leonard 12:43
We're on the same wavelength. Because I had that same image in my head, the idea of like, stepping out right after giving birth and having to be like, put together is so wild. And but all of those type of images that we have, that we've stored really do feel the way that we perceive it to be, especially before we become moms, it's like that's the only frame of reference we really have. Right? Right. I would love to hear you share a little bit more about just your relationship with food as a chef. And just because as you were talking, it's like food is something that is just when you offer people food when you feed people it is such a nurturing act, that it just it makes sense that that would be a way to show love and like attention to a mom who's outermost, a person who's at their most vulnerable.
Cassie Frakes 13:46
Sure. It's, it's a beautiful creative outlet for me, but it is also like you said a way for me to show my love and appreciation and care for others. I think it's a sacred thing to cook for someone. It's a way to care for someone and you know, food. Of course, it's a life force, but it's, um, it's also health. And, you know, it can it can fuel your body in a really positive way if you're eating the, you know, nutrient dense, you know, plants and fruits and all those things. So, I, the way I approached the menu for Luna is how can we eat the rainbow? And how can we source locally? Preferably, but how can I put together a composed meal that is going to fuel a woman's body? And so you know, a lot of people will approach me and say, you know, are you vegan? Do you subscribe to, um, you know, paleo or gluten free and while all of those are, you know, necessary for certain people, I'm We don't necessarily subscribe to the same notion to me. What makes sense is delicious, nutrient dense, easy to eat, which I think is important for new moms. If it's a big composed meal that's, you know, needs a knife and fork, you know, that, to me just doesn't make the most sense. But if it can be placed in a nice bowl and warmed and enjoyed with maybe even just a spoon that, I think, is what's best for new moms. Yeah, and then also, um, I want to mention too, because yes, it's a huge heavy focus on moms and, and women in particular, but our, our portions are really large. And that the notion behind that is you could potentially share with your partner, and I hate to exclude partners and dads out of the equation, but you know, they need to eat to and if they're going to be helping and supporting you, through your journey, you know, they, they need nutrient dense foods as well. And so I do have dads reach out and say, you know, is it only for women? Or can I eat it? And of course, you know, that the food is delicious. There's nothing special, there's no, you know, added supplements, and everything is derived from, you know, fruits and vegetables and protein.
Jackie Leonard 16:26
So, right. But I always say it's like, if you sent her the mom, if you focus on, you know, catering to the mom, everybody benefits, so anybody can be worse, obviously, what you provide. But you have like that intention of, you know, how can I help a woman, a mother be nourished enough that they can, you know, be their best selves? Yes, I love that like that you added that in because, you know, you need to feed the support system to and the family. So it functions that way as well. I remember being really kind of like my mind blown when I learned about, I'm losing my I'm forgetting the name of the book, it might just be the fourth trimester. But when I learned about kind of the Chinese culture, and like you said, I mean, other cultures do this as well. But it was focused on the Chinese culture around catering to the mom and the first 40 days. Yeah, maybe it's the first 40 days as the book. Yes, and how there's different types of food that is best at different stages, especially in that early postpartum period, where it's like you want only warm things to promote the healing in the first few weeks, and then other certain foods are beneficial for later stage healing. But I found that fascinating. Is that something you incorporate into the menu planning that you do?
Cassie Frakes 17:52
Yes, I do. And I am not exactly sure how to say her first name, hang, ooh, I believe is her name. But she is the author and creator of the first 40 days in the book is called the essential art of nourishing the new mother. And certainly something that I have referenced and read. They also have a wonderful book out on fertility and kind of preparing your body for what is hopeful and what's to come. And then I use that as well as, you know, a really great guide and reference point. But all of the recipes were developed by myself. It's, it's half the fun for me is you know, recipe testing and trying out new things and collaborating with different recipes. So while I do use some different books for reference, and guides, everything is developed by myself.
Jackie Leonard 18:48
Right. And I can attest I've seen pictures and stuff of the foods that you offer and they just look so good. And it's it's true. Like you said, it's like when you can get a meal that's made like hope like basically made for you. That looks beautiful too and is all it isn't retching. It's just like, I don't know, it's the best thing as somebody who loves to cook I love to do that for other people. But when it's done for me, it's everything and and I you know, when I looked at that book, I remember I was a little overwhelmed like oh, I can't make all these recipes but it's like even right, even just making like a bone broth for myself or when somebody will deliver soup to me. It was so nice to have that compared to like the you know the bar that I was using because that was like the easiest thing for me for breakfast or whatever right?
Cassie Frake 19:41
Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches casseroles that people brought over to my house. microwavable mac and cheese. It was a little bit before the DoorDash craze so we didn't really deliver you know order a lot of things from our phones but you know Well, I think the intention is there. And it's wonderful when you know, friends and family have like a meal train set up and they bring over chili. That's not necessarily what's going to be good for a new moms body, especially if they're trying to nurse. Or let's say they're, you know, surgical healing from a C section. Yeah, it's, while convenient and lovely that somebody is bringing those items over, it's not necessarily what's going to be the most beneficial for their body. And so that's really where, you know, Luna kind of comes in. And we offer gift certificates to which I always find is that, you know, ever since becoming a new mom, when I go to baby showers, I always give a gift for the mom. You know, because there is such a focus on the baby. But, you know, the moms, the moms need gifts, too. So
Jackie Leonard 20:54
yeah, that's something that I that changed for me after becoming a mom, I was like, I always gave like, I don't know, the outfits and the baby stuff. And then after I became a mom, I was like, Wait, the mom needs a gift, they need something. So I had liked seeing how that's shifted. I think that's something that's gaining a little bit more popularity, popularity, then. I don't know, 10 years ago. I agree. But um, yeah, like you, you spoke to, I think we became moms around similar times. And so it was like, I remember, I was so surprised that I was so hungry, like I needed so much food. Especially because I was breastfeeding. And I had to pump a lot in the beginning. And so I just remember being so hungry. So it was like, somebody would bring over, you know, takeout for us or whatever. And it just wasn't like you said it was all well intentioned, and it's the things that that we ask for. But it's like not filling you in the way that you need to or giving you the energy boost that you really need when you're so deprived. And basically being drained of everything that's, that's supposed to be there for you.
Cassie Frakes 22:08
Exactly. I have a I have a distinct image. Actually, I think someone took a picture, but it was me in the hospital bed just after I had given birth to Hudson and my mom is holding, like some really gross deli tuna sandwich. I'm taking a large bite of it, you know, as I'm leaning over the bed. But yeah, it's you are ravaged, especially if you are breastfeeding, there is no hunger like it. And it's just it's your body signaling that it needs more fuel. You know, you your body just went through an incredibly and I hate to use this word because it has such a negative connotation, but it is trauma. And there's a big shift that happens during birth and labor. And your your body needs fuel after that.
Jackie Leonard 23:03
Yeah. And I also have a picture of my husband feeding me a big burrito afterwards. Yeah, it's like that first bite after birth is like always this like something it just like, everybody that's done. It knows. Yeah, tough. Yes, yes. Yes. But but you know, it does come in in waves later, too. I just remember the you know, depending on growth spurts with my son, it was like, I'm hungry all the time. What's happening? Oh, so yeah, I could definitely see also how, even after the first 40 days, right, and those first like six months, you know, even Yeah, there are different phases that like you really need that support. And you know, what a gift it would be to be able to have somebody provide meals, like you do.
Cassie Frakes 23:55
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Jackie Leonard 23:57
Before I kind of wind down, I did want to ask because I heard you share that. You were working all the way up until you had your son in the in the, you know, the food industry, the restaurant industry. And I'm curious about to hear more about basically what shifted for you. Because I know that that industry is very intense and fast paced and taxing. Yeah, I came. I came from the legal legal industry before I had my son. And similarly, it was very taxing. And so I'd like to hear kind of why you stepped away and this idea sparked for you to start this.
Cassie Frakes 24:40
Yeah, that's a great question. I was a regional manager. Actually. No, that's that's not true. I was a general manager of a bakery, a local bakery in San Diego while I was pregnant with Hudson and it was a great job to juggle you know, being a new mom Um, you know, we didn't work crazy late hours. It was local for me. So I didn't have to travel a ton. It was it was certainly manageable. But right around the time he turned one, I was offered a promotion. And I was promoted to the regional manager, which required a lot more of myself, I was traveling to Orange County every day, I was managing very large teams, many locations. And quite frankly, it it, I think it aided in, you know, how I was feeling postpartum, I just was being pulled in way too many directions, you know, my mom is so wonderful, and such a mentor of mine. And she also worked full time, she had two kids that she raised with my dad. And she always said to me, and I, it still rings true. We're, we are supposed to mother, like, we don't work, and we're supposed to work, like we don't have kids. And it, it just seems so true. It's like, you know, I was always being pulled away from ads in phone calls, emails late at night. And then while I was working, you know, I felt like I was being pulled away from him. And it was, it was a very difficult juggle. And so when the pandemic hit, it really provided some time for me to quiet my mind. And really put forth some goals of mine and things, it was a gift for me, I know, the pandemic was a terrible thing, we're still still living through it. But there was a gift of time for me to stay home, be with my family, and kind of regroup and redirect what it meant for me to, you know, work and provide and what that was going to be in the future. And it, it took some time to develop Luna, but really, at the end of the day, it came down to I want to be of service, and I want to provide for, you know, for women, and then more specifically for new moms. And so, you know, the way that I could do that was by creating healthy and nutrient dense foods for for women. That's,
Jackie Leonard 27:37
you know, I, I wanted to highlight that because I feel like so many moms have also shared about, you know, the motherhood being this impetus for a career shift. And, you know, hearing how that's that evolved for you, I think helps a lot of people see the path for themselves and might be thinking about it might be feeling like, what they are doing isn't working. I just, you know, I just feel like that's also it's equally helpful to talk about that alongside some of the postpartum stuff, because so many moms find themselves in this place where what I did before isn't really seem to work now for the life that I and how can I be successful? You know, it's hard.
Cassie Frake 28:22
It is hard, because you also want to show your children that, you know, goals and careers and, you know, working hard as is important. If that's something that you want, and something that fulfills you, then you should go after that. And it doesn't necessarily mean that if you're a mom, you can't have those things. But it, it's it's a juggle. It's a grind, for sure.
Jackie Leonard 28:46
Yeah. And to go back to like the systemic stuff. I don't think we are at a place yet where we really support with people who are transitioning from, you know, not having children to having children and what that looks like and here so work environment, right?
Cassie Frakes 29:02
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's difficult.
Jackie Leonard 29:06
Yeah. But, you know, just want to highlight again, what you're doing is so amazing. You Yeah. And I wish I was local still because that, you know, that is something that I still feel like I have a need for. It's like, I could really use a nice, a nice meal. But um, yeah. I to round out our conversation. I did have a question that popped up for you. So hopefully, I'm not putting you on the spot. But I did want to ask if you could share, like what's your favorite meal or thing to prepare for a new mom?
Cassie Frakes 29:39
Sure. That's a great question. Um, I am in love with Kitchari. It's a an Indian porridge. There's many different adaptations and variations out there. But the base is red lentils brown rice or any type of grain and mung beans, and I stew it together with a ton of ginger and Tumeric which really helps with digestion and inflammation after birth. I do Fenugreek and phenol, which helps with lactation, and hormone balancing, and then lots of root vegetables for kinds of nutrients and fiber. And it's just it's incredibly aromatic. flavor, flavorful, hearty meal that I think most moms just love.
Jackie Leonard 30:45
Yeah, the blend of those flavors. sounds really interesting. Thank you. Yeah, sure.
Cassie Frakes 30:49
It's good. Yeah, of course.
Jackie Leonard 30:51
Yeah. And then the last question I have for you is, what's a mom hack or some words of wisdom that have helped you be your best self and show up more competently? As a mom?
Cassie Frakes 31:03
Sure. It's such a great question. And I think my purpose now is really to help and show new moms. Maybe even moms that are pregnant and going to become moms is a key is preparation. And the more prepared you are, the better off you'll be in the postpartum world. And something that I love doing is and I know you mentioned this earlier, Jackie is bone broth. It's so incredibly nourishing to your body and healing and if you can make a couple batches or even purchase some and keep it in your freezer, and sip on it throughout the day, you can heat it up. It'll keep you feeling full and warm from the inside out.
Jackie Leonard 31:56
Yeah, I was always so surprised that anytime I drink some that it really did feel like it was one of its I would say a meal replacement, but it does really fill you up in a way that surprised. And so don't don't sell that short. Definitely no.
Cassie Frakes 32:12
Yeah.
Jackie Leonard 32:14
And Okay, last thing is can you share how people can follow along with you after listening to this episode?
Cassie Frakes 32:22
Yeah, absolutely. And so our website, Luna nourish.com, you can order directly from there. You can view our menu that we're currently offering and also buy gift certificates if need be. I'm also on Instagram and Facebook, Luna nourish. And that's lun A and OURISH.
Jackie Leonard 32:48
And I'm still really tired to Southern California even though I'm not there anymore. What area do you serve? For the nourish?
Cassie Frakes 32:58
Thanks for asking that all over San Diego County. I have clients in Hummel I have clients in Temecula, downtown San Diego. I'm based out of North County and that's where the food is made. But we we service all of San Diego.
Jackie Leonard 33:17
Awesome. So if you're in the area, and either you're a new mom, or you know somebody who's having a baby soon, this is the place to go. It's the perfect gift for somebody and give for yourself.
Cassie Frakes 33:32
Yeah, thank you so much Jackie, for having me.
Jackie Leonard 33:35
Yeah, and thank you for this wonderful conversation. I really, really love talking about postpartum and food so it's great