Creating an Empowered Birth Experience with Lisa Fletcher
ABOUT THE EPISODE
This week’s guest is Lisa Fletcher, mother, wife, mentor, and owner of Seven Gates Birth. We have such a special relationship because she was my own postpartum doula and helped my husband and I navigate our own growing family during the pandemic. Lisa is such an advocate for postpartum support and helping mothers feel nurtured and respected. Today Lisa shares her own entrance into motherhood and how this carved the path for her career change to a doula. If you’re wanting to feel a bit seen and understood, you’ll love this episode.
TOPICS DISCUSSED
How Lisa is planning a drastically different experience for birthing her second child compared to her first
The importance of having a health provider who aligns with your own values
Why we have to focus on and plan for postpartum as much as birth
Where Lisa believes the future of maternal care is going
Leaning into active listening and holding space for new mothers
Lisa’s solicited parenting advice - carve out time for yourself
RESOURCES MENTIONED
THIS WEEK’S WRITING PROMPT
Write about those first few days of motherhood. What do you remember feeling and happening? Focus on a specific seemingly small moment that has lasted in your mind.
ABOUT LISA
LISA FLETCHER is a mother, wife, doula, mentor, and at heart, an ambassador of love, seeking all opportunities where she can share love to others. It brings Lisa great joy and excitement to follow her heart’s calling to serve those traveling their hero’s journey of parenthood. Lisa received this calling after having emerged from her own challenging entrance into this new unknown realm. It was from this profound experience that her desire to study, pioneer, and offer supportive and compassionate care for others first began. It has only continued to grow!
Lisa offers a holistic, heart-centered and mindful approach to offering care and her utmost intentions are to listen, hold space and offer loving guidance, wherever you may be on your own intimate journey. Lisa truly believes that we each hold the wisdom within our deepest desires when we connect with our truth and inner knowing. She’s here to be of support to you, as we travel the path of your incredible birth and postpartum journey. Lisa offers a variety of services including birth and postpartum doula services, ceremonial workshops for postpartum healing, pre/postnatal yoga classes, reiki energy healing and Birthing From Within™ childbirth education classes.
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Jackie Leonard, Lisa Fletcher
Jackie Leonard 00:04
Hi, Lisa, welcome to the podcast. Hi, Jackie, thanks so much for having me today. I'm probably gonna go on and on in the intro about how special you are to me and our family. But it just feels like a treat to get to hear you share about your motherhood experience, because you've held that space for me in the past, and I know you've continued to do that, and I'm just so looking forward to people hearing about you. Because everyone I know who knows you always talk about you being like, I think you're a mutual friend of ours who said you're like a magical unicorn.
Lisa Fletcher 00:44
That's one of the nicest things someone ever said about me. So I will, I will receive that wholeheartedly.
Jackie Leonard 00:52
For those who don't know you, can you share a little bit about yourself before we jump into your story?
Lisa Fletcher 00:59
Yeah. So my name is Lisa Fletcher. And I am a a wife and a mom, a mom to a four year old, spunky vivacious daughter named Quinn. I, she's my inspiration for the work that I'm doing that you mentioned, I'm a birth and postpartum doula. And childbirth educator as well. And I currently reside in the Minneapolis area, you recently relocated from San Diego this last year where I got to meet Jackie, and care for her family during her postpartum time. And I am just really excited to be here and to talk with Jackie today about my mothering experience, and kind of all the things that I have gained in the last four years since having having my daughter and I'm currently pregnant. 30 weeks pregnant with my second son this time, and we are gearing up for that.
Jackie Leonard 02:02
Yeah, just as a side note, I feel I've recently interviewed another another pregnant mother. And she was also at the 30 week mark. So it just kind of wow. I keep getting bringing you in at the market. Yeah. Yeah. Because I remarked with might have been too now have to go back and look, but I was remarking that that 30 weak points is like when it really starts to go quickly. And I know you're just there. But you might remember from the first time or with other moms that you've worked with, I just feel like it really kind of,
Lisa Fletcher 02:40
yeah, completely. I would say that has been my experience at almost as a whole for this pregnancy. Just how quickly it's been. I think I've heard that's a very much a second time. Mom experience. I'm like, some days, I'll share. I met with my midwife this morning. And she was like, so how many weeks are we on? I was like, I don't know. She's like, Yeah, it's all good. Second time moms. They just cruise they don't know. I was like, I think I'm 30 weeks. And sure enough, I was but I truly wasn't sure.
Jackie Leonard 03:13
Yeah, that's definitely was my experience. So you touched on it just a bit. But today, you're going to share more about what motherhood story that's the closest to your heart right now. And I wanted to give you the floor to share that story with us.
Lisa Fletcher 03:29
Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate being here and in this space to share and be as vulnerable as possible with that question and topic because I think, you know, what we gained so much from these podcasts talking about motherhood is talking about the real the realness of motherhood and that vulnerable piece that so many of us, I think crave in connection with other mothers. And so I just really appreciate this space that you create Jackie, for moms to listen in and to relate with one another and hear each other's stories. So So yeah, the one that is most, I guess close to my heart right now is that yes, I am 30 weeks pregnant with my second. And I'm planning a drastically different experience this time for birthing this baby than I did with my daughter Quinn. And so just to share a little bit of background, my my husband and I had a hospital birth of our daughter, and that was in San Diego. And you know, at the time, I think we didn't know as much as as we do now. And I think that's always one of those things like you do the best that you with the information that you have at the time. And so at the time, I think we thought that the care that we had selected for that birth was the best care that we could have gotten and in reflection back after the birth experience I think We saw that our values were maybe not in alignment with that provider. And it just resulted in a birth that wasn't very empowering. So. So coming from that experience, I had a really tough time postpartum, and just really lost my footing and really lost all confidence that I thought I would have. And as we all know, being a first time mom is already really challenging. And in feeling into that confidence when you you're doing something you've never done before. And the learning curve is so steep. So I, I quickly kind of dove into this whole healing journey after that experience of like studying birth and studying advocacy, around birth and postpartum maternal mental health. And it was really kind of the start of my healing journey from that birth experience. So I dove into doula work right after that, and have just found it so very rewarding to support people in the way that I had desired to be supported without first birth experience. So this time around, we have just selected a very different team of support. And we are planning a home birth here at our home that we just moved into not long ago, here in Minnesota. And I have to say that in itself, having the care that has been more in alignment with our values, has been so very healing in itself. And I just had my 30 week appointment this morning with my home birth midwife and the amount of time alone she spends with me to get to know me to really listen and hold that space has been such a drastic change for me from what I received the first time of like, really quick appointments and feeling rushed and and so that's something that I have just really appreciated. And so we're getting really excited to plan this homebirth we've got also doulas this time around which we did not have our first time around. We always talk about how our priorities maybe weren't quite alignment. We had a birth photographer at our hospital birth, who ended up pretty much acting as like our chosen doula. In that moment. We're like, you'll be our doula, right. And she was like, I'm sure. I'm here to take photos. But yeah. So we have two amazing doulas and then this amazing midwife, and we just feel so supported. And we're just really envisioning a different experience for ourselves this time. So I would say, just this has been kind of, obviously, my focus was last, I guess, really, four years. I mean, my daughter's four. And I've been, I've been really striving for, to really, again, heal from that first experience. And just to speak a little bit more to that it was just it, wasn't it, it came down to why was that experience, I guess, if you want to put it traumatic, it was really about not having autonomy in being able to choose or to speak up and to feel like we were being heard on what we wanted in those moments of such a vulnerable time of giving birth. So we felt like our, you know, our voice was kind of taken away in that setting. And it wasn't that, you know, there wasn't care being given. But I think it's again, how you make people feel when you're offering that care. So. So yeah, it was really how the care that we desired to receive as again was just that, that feeling that we had a say in what was being done at the time. And my birth started with my water breaking at home, and I took my time to get to the hospital. We showed up about six hours after my water broke, I was feeling great. I wasn't having any I hadn't gone into labor, I didn't have any contractions starting. And so we, you know, we had a meal, we got some food on the way down, we stopped and got some candy for the nurse, you know, just took our time we got there. And our first kind of experience was that we had made like they were saying how, like, Where have you guys been? And like really kind of felt shamed for having taken those five, six hours to get to the hospital. So that was kind of the start of the experience where we just felt kind of taken aback of like, oh, like okay, like we you know, everything seems fine. And from there, I am a big believer in physiological birth. And so I really wanted To give my body an opportunity to move into labor, my water had ruptured. But again, I wasn't experiencing labor contractions yet. And I had known from taking a childbirth ed class that, you know, between 80 and 90% of women will go into labor within that first 24 hours after their water ruptures. And so I really wanted to have that amount of time. And the of course, we had an OB practice and our OB that we had had our visits with wasn't on call that day. So that continuity of care from the start wasn't there, which we knew going into it that was the possibility of that. But I don't think we realized how important that continuity of care was being first time birthing people. And so we got there, and it was somebody we'd never met before. And she had just told the nurse like, she didn't even come in to introduce herself. She just told the nurse, I want to start her on Pitocin right away. And so I hadn't even gotten a face to face with this physician. And so it felt very abrupt and rushed. And so I said, Can I speak to the Can I speak to the physician she came in, and she was just to her demeanor right away. It was just like, kind of why are you hassling me like she she said, I've been doing this for over 25 years, why would you not take my recommendation of starting Pitocin. And I simply wanted again, to have a discussion, I wanted to have a, I wanted to feel like my, my thoughts and my preferences mattered. And in that moment, they seemed very dismissed. And so that was really where I felt like the start of the unempowered birth experience started for us. And I really was on my heels. At that point, I just was like, didn't feel safe. And I, again, really believe that women need to feel safe and supported to give birth. And so just the cascade of interventions happened from that point, I, they ended up saying they'd give me 30 minutes, before giving me the Pitocin. And again, I just felt like that wasn't really again, and in an alignment or there wasn't that in between where we were working together. So from there, it kind of just the cascade of things, we were kind of just deer in the headlights at that point, my husband and I, we didn't really know how to regain our footing in that setting. I think we lost all confidence to speak up and to advocate and we kind of just became those patients, it was like, just follow along with the recommendations. So we ended up having my daughter, and we were I was so relieved, and so grateful she was there. There were a scare tactic shared of like, if you don't do this, by this time, and you'll have an emergency cesarean there was just a lot of that. So that was, that was our experience. And I don't think we realized how much that was going to play into our initial parenting experience. When we got home, we got home. And that same sense of having our loss of footing was kind of the same feeling we got when we got home, it was like we don't know what we're doing. We should listen to everybody else. And you know, one thing I've definitely learned over the last four years is that, that intuitive piece as a parent, like you know, you have to dive deep into finding that connection with your own unique experience and your child. And so it was really challenging to traverse that in the very beginning, the first four or five months were very, very challenging for us, I ended up getting diagnosed with postpartum anxiety. And my husband didn't really know what that meant or how to support he, he was doing everything he knew how to do. We had very minimal support from people around just like our family wasn't nearby. And so it was tricky. So that's kind of where we have come from. And where we are headed again, is we've just totally picked a different. Everything has been different. I mean, we even moved to a different state. And we have found in our experience thus far up to this point, 30 weeks of having a different kind of care. Just very healing and grounding. And so I'm very excited for this experience. And it really did empower me to become a doula. And I've seen so many births in becoming a doula and I, the there's so many unknowns about birth. So the traversing birth always takes that level of courage. So although I'm planning this home birth, and I get a lot of reactions from people sometimes of that sounds risky, or do you Have a backup plan? Are you sure you want to do that? Again, it's just really feeling into what my husband and I feel really good about, and really in alignment with and finding the provider that is supporting that plan. So it's it's been a journey. It's been, it's been really amazing. I was just talking to my midwife this morning. And she was just like, how are you feeling? Like, usually, at this point, a lot of my people do have this moment of like, oh, gosh, like, do I have to do this? And I was telling her I'm like, am I maybe I'm feeling anxious that I don't feel anxious about this. And I was like, I think that has to credit your your care. I was talking to her that that's a credit to your care of, like how supported I have felt this time, and how drastically different the models are. So that that's that's kind of what I wanted to share today. And just empower people with my story that even though this this next birth will be a birth story of its own, that if the first one wasn't, wasn't the way you'd hoped it to be, or that each birth story is unique, and that you can always, you know, try to go for what you originally intended to go for. So. So yeah,
Jackie Leonard 16:29
I could go so many different directions. I loved hearing how much you delve into the details of the differences that you've noticed, in the care that you received. Yeah. And just appreciate you sharing kind of where you were coming from as a first time parent going into the birth situation, because I mean, I didn't get it, you didn't get into how you approach postpartum, which I've heard so many first moms say, you know, all I thought about was the birth didn't think about postpartum. But in a lot of ways, it's like, even when we do focus on birth, even though we all focus on birth so much with our first especially, yeah, we miss things, right? There's things that maybe like you said, Our priorities are kind of not because, oh, obviously, but it just, I just resonated with so much of x. It's like, yeah, I felt like I needed to be so physically ready for breath, that I didn't think about, like the emotional or just just the mental toll that it would take, or where I needed to be to be able to birth the way I wanted to, like all those things I hadn't thought about, let alone postpartum using the birth photographer as an example. Yeah, it's like, I know, I want you know, pictures, but it's not to knock
17:50
you or anything. Yeah, no, like so much.
Jackie Leonard 17:52
That what we do, right. It's like, we grasp that what we think,
Lisa Fletcher 17:58
right? Yeah. Yeah. And I like the grasping component to like, I think we're all like, you know, there's so much fear in the birth space still. And as a doula, that's what I'm really passionate about, like breaking that down and seeing like, where does that truly come from? And a lot of it, I think, is that like, like we said, like that grasping that clutching on and to want to have control over over a lot. And birth is there's that, that level of stepping into the unknown with birth and that unpredictability that does require so much letting go. And I think that has been one of the biggest things that I've learned since that first birth experience and from observing and supporting other families, that other birth that when we can step into it from a place of more flexibility and letting go that that's, that's when I tend to see people feel there's just not so much of this trauma that we have from these experiences of like, holding these expectations for certain outcomes. And so that's my my midwife right now. I was telling her how I was like, I haven't been doing prenatal yoga like I did with my first I was going every week and now I get like there once a month maybe and, and I'm trying to you know, do these things to make sure everything was right. And I was telling you how I went and got a massage and the massage therapist was like telling me how my glutes and sacrum were so tight. And my midwife looked at me and she's like Lisa, even if your glutes are your your asses tight, she's like, that baby will come out. And I was it was so like, you know, again reaffirming of like, we get stuck in our head. And we have this checklist that like everything has to, you know, we have to get every box checked and and that clutching on and holding on, I think what is what makes it harder for ourselves sometimes. So,
Jackie Leonard 20:16
for those who don't know, I also I had two homers with the same midwife. And as you shared what your midwife said, reminded me with my second. I was like, you know, I haven't been working out like, I have not been doing anything, I really haven't. I've maybe go on walks, and that's about it. I feel like I feel like I'm so out of shoe like, not ready physically for this baby. And my midwife was like, you have, you know, you have a three year old, like, we're getting a workout, you're picking him up, you know, you're doing all these things like you're playing with him, like you are getting a workout, you know? Where those kind of those kind of little comments, you know, it's like, we beat ourselves up up so much to have somebody that's there that's being able to reflect back like you're doing what you need to do, you're fine. Like you said, the baby will come out like, Yeah, very much like, that resignation is so important. And I remember feeling it, especially with my second. And that comes from, I think we can't expect that of ourselves. Unless we're supported. I think like, you know, it's like, I think we think, Oh, so much as you know, mothers and people who are birthing like, I just need to do this, I need to wrap my head around this, but we can like, it's not possible unless we feel like we are going to be cared for. Because to be able to know, like, even if x happens, or even if I freak out, I'm going to have a team of people there that will be able to, you know, advocate for me who are going to be able to bring me back or help me, you know, do the things that I need to do? Yeah, the moment. So I know that going in. And so it was very much I was able to say you know what will happen will happen. And I know that I like have people there to support me. And that's just everything like that makes the biggest difference, no matter where you are? Or how Yeah,
Lisa Fletcher 22:12
no, it really, really does. Like picking your care team is one of the things in my childbirth ed classes I stress the most now, like, if you're not feeling that solid connection and trust, and that sense of really being cared for, it's never too late to go find that. And I know a lot of people feel again nervous about oh, I don't want to switch I don't you know, that ruffle any feathers step on any toes. But it's giving birth and and having a child is one of the most profound things I think we can do in our life. And so to have the team that really supports you is I think so vital.
Jackie Leonard 22:56
Yeah. I'm curious if I'm, you did speak to a birthing class you took with your first was that really kind of your only exposure at that point, too. I like to call it the birthing world because it's so expansive once you learn about it, but when you don't know about it, you just think like, You got to really have a baby like what else? Yeah. What was that like kind of your gateway into it? Or was it after you had your daughter that you started to learn more just because of your experience?
Lisa Fletcher 23:29
Yeah, so we had just taken a birthing from within class prenatally, my husband and I went to as a phenomenal experience, it was like a four week long with other couples. And it really got us thinking about these things, but almost, which I think planted this seed of all of this reflection afterward, almost, it got us thinking prenatally, but not to the point where we like, made a switch in our care team, which is the part I think that you know, we regret, like, oh, but afterward, it really provided a good jumping off point for us to be like, we have some healing work to do here now. And so that I actually birthing from within was the framework that I started studying after my daughter was born. And I dove back into that and became a birthing from within childbirth educator over the course of a couple of years and studying that framework. And if you if you're not familiar with birthing from within, I highly encourage you to take the look at it England is the is the creator of that program. And she just holds so much wisdom in the particularly like the emotional, spiritual component of giving birth, and she believes birth is a rite of passage and a journey of transformation. And so her framework really spoke to me from the experience that we had and so I started studying with her, and then I, I studied with homebirth, primarily homebirth, midwife. She's over on the east coast, it's called Madrona YPO. She's amazing. Check her out, too. She really is a big proponent of physiologic birth. And then I also did my postpartum care training with another amazing home birth midwife in New Mexico. Her her business is called innate traditions. And she's all about like, getting back to this rebuilding component that I think so many of us crave and becoming parents, but we don't know like, how to start or where to go. And you know, we're all kind of living these like, nuclear a little lifes, and many of us aren't near our families, like maybe we were once you know, generations ago, and she really talks about how parenting isn't supposed to be this, this solo, this solo ride like that we actually really do do need the power of community. And so I've really leaned into that a ton in the last four years. And that was kind of my inspiration. Becoming a postpartum doula is like, just from my own experience, and from seeing so many other moms share how hard it is, it's so hard to do this on your own. And but, you know, to look back and to see like that, that's actually not how it was meant to be. So, yeah, that's kind of where it all those who have been my mentors, birthing from my thin and and those two midwives and just connecting with other doulas and other moms and the whole thing, it's been, it's been really, really cool. Birth is fascinating to me, I could keep going.
Jackie Leonard 26:48
This could be like a two hour episode. Okay. I could just go on and on. And I, I like to highlight, you know, for the people who, you know, maybe think, you know, I didn't give birth in a in a, you know, I don't know, I don't think I could ever do a home birth. And that's not something I'm interested in, I think it's the the model of midwifery care do like, you know, care is not necessarily based on like, the location, it's more about, like, the supporting the birthing person, right. And it, there are so many different avenues and approaches. And it's really, like you said earlier, which I want to touch on about the knowing what you need, and being able to have a team around you that is making sure that that happens. Yeah, possible, and that you're included in the decision making and all those things. And that can happen in any various format. Like you said, you've seen all sorts of different bursts, and they're all they all can be incredibly powerful. Yes, I've seen, you know, just amazing, gentle Syrians that are done and all those. And so it's not speaking to a specific. Yeah, finding a home birth, I had home births, but it doesn't. When I speak about it, I like to say I like to plant the seed. So go and look and see what these different options are. Because it helps you at least know like you said, even to know, for you to know, to ask the question at the hospital, from the get go. Probably was possible because of the birthing class that you took to say, you know, hey, what's going on here? And I know, I could feel my body shut down when you were talking about that, because it's so it happened so often when a doctor you know, somebody in a powerful position says something to kind of shut you down? Of course, you're not gonna you know, it's very difficult in those situations, if you don't.
Lisa Fletcher 28:41
Absolutely. And I'm so glad you touched on that point, Jackie, of just that, like, the different birth spaces. And it's, again, it's what speaks to you as an individual, where do you feel the most supported and safe and secure. And I as a doula, I've attended births, in so many different locations, I've I've attended just wonderful births, with wonderful providers in hospital settings as well and birth centers at home. And again, it's, it's, it's the care, it's that connection you have with your care provider. And I think that's really what I wanted to touch on of like, empowering people to again, find the care that most resonates with them and know that if it doesn't resonate, then it's okay to keep looking and to keep searching and see what other options are out there for you. My husband and I, we didn't even I mean, we'd heard about home birth, but we didn't. I don't think we've had enough exposure to it, to know that it that it was an option for us. Birth Center as well. We'd heard about it but we just we didn't know enough about it. I wasn't a doula at the time. I didn't. I hadn't, hadn't talked to anybody else. I hadn't really had those. So that's hospital birth was just kind kind of in our mind like the option so that's one of my my big goals is as a doula and childbirth educators to talk about all the different avenues and places to give birth and and to know that whatever it is speaks to you is where you should be.
Jackie Leonard 30:15
Yeah. Oh gosh, I was at the tip of my tongue what I was gonna say what I feel like, I think it's pretty I can say this pretty confidently is what I feel the most proud of about the kind of, I think there's been an up like an increase in people who seek out doula care and midwifery care, I see that people going to those avenues has actually helped improve the care that's given in the traditional settings. So you know, and midwives are very proud of this, right? Like, because of Midwifery, hospitals have integrated a lot of the practices that they always have have done, right, because they see that it's, it's helpful, there are OBS, who really do appreciate midwife midwives, because they're like, We want to have more midwives do normal, normal births are births that are you know, healthy, and you know, not having issues so that we can attend to the more complicated pregnancies that are like specialty to care. And so it doesn't have to be like this kind of like a versus it can be a collaboration between these different care providers. And I seen it, it used in that way, where there was there was a problem, like there was stats, we I mean, I could probably share some of the stats if I had them in front of me, but you know, the the stats about the high number of interventions in America, you know, US hospitals, and the, you know, the infant and the maternal mortality rates as a whole. And then when you get into, you know, black birthing people and women of color, like me, the numbers are just so off compared to what we expect of the United States. And when you look at other, you know, first, you know, developed countries, it's not the same, and they have different care practices. So there was a problem, and there still is, and and I think that using the models that you know, you've into, you've applied to your pregnancy now, are actually what have shown to decrease those numbers. And so there is something to be said that it works, you know, like, it's not just anecdotal, this makes me feel better, it actually
Lisa Fletcher 32:38
works. Yeah, no, I just attended. I'm part of a group back here in Minneapolis called the childbirth collective. And we just had our annual meeting. And we had an amazing bipoc speaker, and she was sharing, unfortunately, some of the very devastating stats that are still present here in our country happening right now. For people of color, even just been attended by. So a newborn, that's a baby of color born and that has care received from a white pediatrician, their infant mortality rate is like three times as high as if they were to have a provider that they feel that trust and connection with of color. And so I think we're seeing, there's a lot of opportunity here for us to look much, much closer at this model of, again, finding the providers that are in alignment with how we care to be treated, and we we have the opportunity to make such growth. So I think that's what gets me really excited about this work about doula work about midwifery care about all of it is, again, like you said, the collaboration piece that there's such opportunity there. And I know you had asked me to share, I wanted to touch on this now because it's very applicable to what we're talking about. The one of the things I recently listened to that was inspiring and impactful to me was I listened to a podcast called The Saqqara life. And the episode was with an OB physician, his name is Dr. Neil Shah. And he works over he's the Chief Medical Officer with the Maven clinic. And he just shared a really the title of the podcast was the future of maternal care. And I really appreciated his perspective of what he shared as an OB and how, you know, he that collaboration, like he talked about, like we could be doing small changes. He talked about just even having, we have the use of these whiteboards in all these hospital rooms, but a lot of the time they're not being filled out. And just that continuity, again of communication and of care from one provider coming into the room to the next to be able to have Have the birth name person's name up there and have a partner's name and, and what they desire, like right there for everybody to see. He says that they've seen like increased positive outcomes from little changes like that. And when the whole care team feels like they're connected. And so I really appreciated that that episode, I highly encourage a listen, if you have time, any of the listeners out there. And so we have we have ways to go. But we're seeing change, slow and steady. But as a collective, we definitely still have room.
Jackie Leonard 35:38
Yeah, I last thing I wanted to speak to just that I love that you pointed out was how the way that the model was for you when you had your first birth, how it set you up to doubt yourself to not trust what you felt was right. And so then we think as a new parent, I have to ask, and I have to seek, like, go externally to get answers, because I don't know what I'm doing. Because I didn't know, back then, you know, when I was giving birth? So how do I know now? And I had never thought about it that way. But it just it makes so much sense that sets parents up to feel inadequate. Obviously, I don't think that's the intention. But I think that it really can play that role. And lead us, you know, lead you down kind of likes to spiral as a parent and not Yeah. And when you spoke to this doctor, I just kept hearing the word intention, like it's really just about approaching it in an intentional way. Who are we thinking about when we're, we're, we're trying to apply these, like, if we want to apply changes, like what can we do in potential way to like help serve the mothers who are hurting?
Lisa Fletcher 36:48
Yeah, absolutely. I think that makes a world of difference in and just that that bedside manner. So he and you know, again, acknowledging people where they're at, even if it differs from where you're at, I think that active listening that we can lend to each other in our society is like, so huge of just feeling heard again, it's just I think people just want to feel heard. And even if there's varying opinions on the approach, that's what I have found has been one of the biggest things for, for my Doula clients in the process of giving birth. Is that validation? I felt validated and heard. Yeah,
Jackie Leonard 37:39
I think it's the quickest access to trust. Yes, he's talking about like the turnover of care, right? Like, how can we create these relationships in such a short amount of time, but I think, yeah, active listening, and just holding that space will just quickly can really make a huge difference. So yeah, for sure. So you did do your share with the I thought that was a great time to plug that episode. And I'm really interested to listen to that. I have two other asks of you before we go. And again, this could have easily been a multi hour episode. I can just go on and on. But I really appreciate how comprehensively you shared on this. And I would love to hear you share before you go how, Oh, what was a song that you would use to describe your motherhood experience?
Lisa Fletcher 38:32
Yeah, so I am a big fan of Trevor Hall. I don't know if you know him or not Jackie. He's like the folk kind of reggae is very focused on like spirituality. And he has been instrumental and just my postpartum motherhood journey. A lot of his songs just really speak to me. He's actually coming to Minnesota this next year, and I was like, oh, world's alive. I'm gonna try to go see him if I can. But his one of the songs is titled Great storm clouds. And I'll just read one of the lyrics. So you can get a little flavor. But it says great storm clouds holding rain. It's part of nature to hold a bit of pain. All in all that rain falls and then we watch a new thing grow. So I really feel like that's like a culmination of me for the last four years and where I'm headed into this next birth of it's like are even though I didn't desire that, that type of a first birth experience I've learned and gained so much from it as well. I've been so much perspective, so many new connections with people from becoming a doula from that experience. I Think about all the amazing families I've gotten the chance to work with and serve. And it blows my mind at times. So I the next line is just how to surrender to the mystery. And I think that's, I just love, I can't really, like, share everything about what I love, but it just, I think there's so much in there that speaks to me. And one other song he has is called, you can't rush your healing. And that's another one that I just love. So check him out. Really easy going music to listen to.
Jackie Leonard 40:34
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it's like, I love the lyrics, you shared so much wisdom and just simple words. Yeah. And then lastly, what's, um, you've given such good advice, I feel like throughout this whole conversation, but um, what some, you know, some solicit advice that you would share to any parents listening?
Lisa Fletcher 40:55
Yeah. So, one of the things that got me through to the other side of that challenging postpartum experience was carving out time for myself. And what did that look like, for me in the early days, it was like, literally, like going to yoga almost every day was kind of my practice, my husband would come home and like, the minute he came home, I would like hand Quinn off to him and like run out the door to try to get to yoga. And I would be lying. If I didn't say like, on the car right there, I was feeling massively guilty about doing that as a new mom, like handing off my little baby and running out the door. But I knew I had to, in order to take care of myself. And for that to spill over to my family. So it was crucial. And so I think over the last several years, I've just learned that like, unless I schedule that time and for myself, and really make it a priority, that it doesn't happen. And then it doesn't benefit my family, it doesn't benefit when I'm spinning my wheels and feeling out of control because I haven't carved out any any time for myself. So that would be my my word. My words of wisdom for any other moms out there. That feel that way. When you go do something, I think normalizing that more and more for moms. I just just talking to another mom, who just went on a solo birthday getaway for herself up to where you near you, Jackie, she went up to Washington, so I'm not quite by you, but and she just shared it and I saw it on her page and I it just made me so happy because she was so happy. And she was like, you know, again, just sharing that like, you don't typically see a mom go take like a birthday getaway trip by herself. But how good it was for her soul. So and she got to return to her family and just happy and ready to connect with them.
Jackie Leonard 42:49
Yeah, yeah. Give your family the best version of you that you can. Right Yeah, right. Yeah, my favorite things to do is like a little staycation and mentioning I think I went that's I think that's gonna be my Christmas present. It just Yeah, it's so true. It's just such a good recharge and to give permission right to other moms that you can do that and it's actually good. So yeah, completely and even just a little bit like a yoga class like you said like that's an hour right? Yeah. Like your you know, you know, going on a weekend or weekend getaway you know, it's a pieces or a block or whatever. Yeah, small if you need there Sure. Yes. Oh, well, thank you so much, Lisa, for this. It's it's always so nice to talk to you and and I, I especially I'm glad we got to connect before you yourself are the birthing person and I just wish you the most beautiful and empowering and unhealed birth and postpartum
Lisa Fletcher 43:55
Thank you Jackie for creating this space for me to share today and for all you listeners out there who also many of you have shared your stories as well with Jackie on her page. I just love I just love what you're creating a grandmother scope.
Jackie Leonard 44:11
Oh, and I forgot Okay, last thing. Sorry. I was gonna go. How can people get a hold of you? Because I've just raved about how great you are. And so just can you share how people connect with you? Yes, on so
Lisa Fletcher 44:24
yeah, you can find me on my website. It's seven gates for.com or on Instagram also seven gates birth. I am taking a little leave of course for this babe. But I am really looking to of course dive back into it and continue connecting with people in this space. So yep, you can find me there. Alright, thanks
Jackie Leonard 44:49
so much, Lisa.
Lisa Fletcher 44:51
Thank you Jackie for having me.