Why Mothers Deserve Better with Kailtin Solimine
ABOUT THE EPISODE
Kaitlin Solimine, writer and Motherscopecontributor, is on the show today. I was introduced to Kaitlin through a mutual friend and I’ve always been captivated with the way she incorporates her advocacy for moms into her creative writing. She challenges the convention and structures that have held mothers back in the past and most likely the future too. This episode will get you thinking about your role as a mother, especially in this capitalistic world we all live in.
TOPICS DISCUSSED
Kaitlin’s journey with infertility and adoption in her early 30s and the silver lining she’s found
The importance of family support throughout the challenges of getting pregnant and being a new mom
Shedding a light on the healthcare disparities of new moms and children in this country, especially during the pandemic
Remembering that the days are long but the years are short and every moment is a part of a larger season
RESOURCES MENTIONED
THIS WEEK’S WRITING PROMPT
Write a job description for the work you do that does not receive a salary.
What is one way you can show yourself that the work you do, that goes unpaid, has value?
ABOUT KAITLIN
KAITLIN SOLIMINE is mother to Calliope and Rafael, author of award-winning novel Empire of Glass, cofounder of Hippo Reads and Hippo Thinks, and a childbirth and lactation activist. Her writing has been featured in The Guardian, The Wall Street Journal, National Geographic, Guernica Magazine, LitHub, and more. She lives in San Francisco where she is at work on a second novel, The Blue Lobster, which explores themes of midwifery, climate change, and New England Native American history, as well as a book of essays on home and motherhood.
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Jackie Leonard 00:08
Hi, Kaitlin, hi. excited to talk to you today. To get us started, can you share a little bit about yourself with those listening?
Kaitlin Solimine 00:19
Sure. I am a writer. I don't know if I should say that first. So I'm a mom and a writer. And my first novel was published in 2017. I live currently in San Francisco. I have lived a lot in Asia and in China specifically and speak Mandarin Chinese. And my kids are currently I have to think about this. Five and a half, two and a half. And I am 20 Wait, what did I tell you six weeks pregnant with my third? I think yes. 26.
Jackie Leonard 00:48
That's right. I give you kudos. Because with my second, I just, you know, with my second pregnancy, I was already struggling to keep track. So with third impressive, I can imagine I would be like, Oh, I'm due on this day, I think. No,
Kaitlin Solimine 01:07
just like every day, I'm great. I'm just like, okay, still pregnant. This is good. Feels good. Yeah.
Jackie Leonard 01:13
still growing still, you know. So number three. Mm hmm. How are you feeling?
Kaitlin Solimine 01:21
I'm feeling okay. I feel like okay, I guess I'm almost in the third trimester, I had to look that up to I was like, wait, when does that so for some reason that feels really meaningful, right of like that transition of like, Okay. My mother in law was saying that, to that, just getting to that viability feels really meaningful of Okay, for getting closer and things are healthier. But generally, yeah, I mean, I honestly like you said, I don't have a lot of time to think about it. So for better or worse, I'm running around a lot with the kids now that schools back and COVID related stuff is sort of life is sort of finding this new, new normalcy. I don't know what you'd call it new. It's just, you know, like, pandemic life, but slightly more normal. The kids are actually in school now, which they weren't for almost two years. So yeah, just navigating all of that has been interesting while pregnant. Which I know you also went through. So yeah. So today,
Jackie Leonard 02:19
I mean, I could go on and on, but I'm gonna divert, because anytime I talk to pregnant people, I get very, like, tell me more.
Kaitlin Solimine 02:30
Do you really want to know, round ligament pain? A little bit here and
Jackie Leonard 02:35
there? Oh, gosh, I don't miss that, um, today, which this might have to do with pregnancy? I don't know today, what we're going to talk about is answering the question, what's been the biggest hurdle that you've overcome? As a mom, correct? Yeah. And so I'd love to hear you share more about that.
Kaitlin Solimine 02:57
Yeah. So when I read this question, I had some immediate thoughts in terms of my own past and how long it took us to become parents. In the meantime, as I was sort of like thinking this through as I think I told you, Jackie, yesterday I got home I was planning on like getting into I'm you know, as I'm a writer, I was planning on to like getting into my work that morning, after I dropped the kids off, go to put in some laundry, actually take out the laundry and put in earlier and realize that somehow my son's diaper had made it into the laundry. And I guess diapers inserts have these really nasty gel. Apparently, they're non toxic, these little beads, and they went everywhere. It was like all over the clothing on the side of the laundry machine. I'm pregnant too. So I'm like, trying to like lean in and get over my belly and like wipe it off. It was pretty awful in terms of just a task of like, this is gonna take me a few hours. Great. I'm so glad this is what I'm doing with my morning. But it did make me think a lot about just the kind of everyday challenges of motherhood and also like, how you extrapolate out that out to just the lack of support systems, right? So like, that's something I was interested in talking about anyway, so it kind of got me thinking about, Oh, my gosh, like, this is just this is, you know, this is a sort of thing that derails you in a sense, then it's also though, how can I just be in this and be like, wow, this is kind of funny, kind of not like, well, I just had to find the humor and things that are also challenging. But my initial thought about that question was about our infertility journey. And being in you know, my early 30s and, you know, I think often about like, what drove me to want to become a mother. And why you know, I think I kind of, I kind of compare it to, like, everyone has things they want to experience in life ideally, right? Like for some people that might be climbing Mount Everest, or you know, travel In the world, or living in a city or not living in a city and so to me, like Parenthood is just one of those things that you have a finite amount of life that you live, and you have no idea what that will be. And I knew that it was something I wanted to explore and experience. So that's a selfish thing. And I also I enjoy being around children, and I would always like babysit and do other things in education here and there. And so it felt like a natural extension of all of that. And I wanted to experience you know, childhood again, and a sense to right, as a parent, that we get to see the world in a different way. So for all of those reasons, you know, I was really compelled to become a mother, and very surprised when it just didn't happen and didn't happen. It didn't happen, it didn't happen. And meanwhile, like, everyone around me felt like everyone was having babies. And, um, you know, it was a challenge in terms of deciding how much we were willing to do and what, what path felt appropriate for me, you know, you'd go into different doctors, and some would say, I remember there was one man into that. I'm a particular age and race. And he sat down in front of us and said, Well, you know, just do IVF, I can get you pregnant, I can get you pregnant with IVF. And just the language that he was using, like, I can get you pregnant, it was like, Lula, is this is like, what about my body? And what is my about how do I What is my autonomy here? And like, what is my agency. And that sort of turned me off to diving headfirst into sort of like more fertility assistance. At that point, I think we were maybe maybe a year and a half to two years. And at that point, and looking back, he was right, in terms of I think that with the with that assistance, we may have gotten pregnant right away, I don't know. But I don't know. And you just never know. So we kind of went our own path. And like, by the time we finally were ready, we had actually also simultaneously been trying to adopt, because that was something that we were always interested in. And it didn't feel like it was unique to the fertility journey, but it was like we really want to be parents, like why not explore all options. So we went through that process was also rife with moments of uncomfortableness, I guess, in terms of just like what that process can look like, especially we were doing an international adoption, and what that looks like and what that means in terms of obviously, coming from the US and adopting children abroad. And I know there's been a lot written about that as well. And so navigating that was definitely challenging. And in the end, we did end up matching with a child who we felt like was an appropriate fit, we accepted the file, but then we got an update later in terms of some medical conditions and needs, and felt that it was just way outside of our capability as to young people that weren't even living in the US at the time to be able to appropriately care for this child. And so had to turn it down. And that was a really hard thing, it felt like it really felt like a loss, like we had names and I had started, you know, doing all the stuff you do when you're going to become a parent of like, nesting, you know, like buying toys, and buying clothing, and like, envisioning what your life is like with this child, potentially, and who she would become. And so then, realizing that we had to make that hard decision was Yeah, it was pretty devastating. But I think it also forced us to recognize how much we were willing to do and sacrifice in that journey to becoming parents and pushed us a little bit further with fertility assistance, as well. And then we did end up getting pregnant shortly thereafter. And that, I often think about just all of that, and how it prepared me to be a parent because typically, I mean, not to the, in the past, I was extremely type a pretty controlling in terms of like what I kind of had this thought of like, which is lucky and wonderful and super privileged of like, I can set a goal and I just I will just work really hard and I will just, you know, find the appropriate resources and I can do it and feeling like empowered on that journey and then to just not like to your body to feel like it's sort of failing, you felt like really challenging, and I wasn't, I didn't know how to like solve that problem appropriately, right. And I think it's softened me in a way that was really helpful to becoming a parent and it's sort of just like sloughed off a lot of expectation and Also just sort of like, yeah, like made it a softer land to parenting. As I found that others that I knew that didn't go through that it seemed like that softening would happen at different moment in the parenting journeys. For me, I felt like I was already sort of there so that when I'm then just sort of even through the pregnancy and trying to decide what felt right for us in terms of the birth process, and postpartum and like, I just felt like I knew much more about what I needed and wanted and also just was able to even even though I knew I wanted a specific birth experience that I also felt very comfortable with, like, I also know I'm okay, like if things don't go that way. And so that was that was helpful, I think, in just preparing me that was like the silver lining, I guess, of the fertility journey. And then obviously, as I mentioned, I'm now pregnant with my third. And so that is, that's been an interesting leap of both both my first and second, children were conceived via fertility methods. And they are, in fact, what I don't know, intervened, you know, tech, clustering, technological interventions, medical interventions that weren't, you know, we didn't weren't just conceived the old fashioned way. Whereas this third one, we were not. You know, it's not even like we weren't planning it was just sort of, like, Look, we didn't, this didn't work for us previously. So we don't really want to think about contraception and think about what that means. But we also are open, it was like, the door was ajar. My midwife was talking to me once about that. And she's like, you know, you hadn't totally, I was like, No, no, no, we had not closed the door. And maybe it was tempting fate a little bit, but it was just like, you know, we were comfortable with it. And so it is a little bit of a navigation as I was saying to you earlier about how I can be this age now, as my daughter likes to point out and be pregnant. Whereas obviously, you know, that life might have been a little bit quicker when I try to forecast like, oh, how old am I going to be when this child is in college and things like that, but, um, but it is just is what it is, right? And so I think kind of part of all that is just like, well, it is, this is what it is. And I have also witnessed, like, through different, especially fertility support groups, I was in early on, like, all the different iterations of like, the women I was with at that moment, and where their family journey took them to. And so it's just, it's just sort of, you know, you there's, I don't know, I feel like I'm kind of like throwing up my hands. And just like, this is where we are, okay, this is where we are now. Um, but it definitely, also, you know, as I was alluding to, has made me think about family support, like, you know, in terms of both the, you know, the prenatal process, the childbirth process, like postpartum, I had done a lot of work. And it also came from such privilege that I had so much support, that I faced fewer challenges, I feel through that process because of that. And it's made me recognize, obviously, how lucky I was to be able to resource myself in that way, but also just how terrible we treat new mothers parents, you know, families in this country. And so while Yes, you know, I look kind of going back to the note that I made about, like, you know, everyone sort of fix their own journey and it's not about being you know, everyone has to become a parent. But at the same time, like if we are looking at children as obviously so essential to our society, and yet, I mean, even through the pandemic, right of like, well, it's just throw them all back in school and whatever, like they're not vaccinated or you know, these people are and these iron and what sort of vulnerabilities they they're, you know, they have, it seems like it's been minimalized but it's not surprising to me because sort of what we've been doing as a society so I think, where I'd have infinite time, like that's where I feel like my passion and my heart lies is in shifting that because I've also seen friends abroad with just it's so different. You are given and provided in especially like I have friends in Scandinavia and Western Europe and whether it's like the French pelvic floor health that that you know, this amazing program of pelvic floor health that women are offered post partum or a friend in Norway who gets I think 10 or 11 months off and then her partner gets an additional four months so she will have 10 or 11 months. maternity leave, and then when she goes back to work, her partner gets to take off for months, which feels kind of unheard of. So that child then is with one parent or another for, you know, quite a significant amount of time compared to obviously, what's us right now. So, yeah, I'm not really sure how those relate. But I think like, the struggle of getting pregnant and kind of like really forcing that issue for me Can made me think about it, I guess it just sort of challenged me to think about how little support they're like how much I had, and then how much others don't have and seeing so many people struggle, and even those who do have a lot of like, it's like, they're individuals who do have a ton of resources who still are struggling, so then what does that look like when you don't? And then just like, you know, extrapolating that out? Um, yeah, so
Jackie Leonard 15:56
yeah, well, I, I think I share a lot of the same feelings. Were when I faced challenges as a mom, I very naturally, like, found myself thinking about, like, how do people do this that, you know, don't have a partner, first of all, or like, how or don't have, you know, that have to work, you know, that don't and don't have people that can help them? Like, I just every challenge that I faced, I just remember just because that's my natural way, which is a whole other thing. But thinking about, what about people that don't have what I even have? I'm struggling? And I feel like I am very, you know, just fortunate. And still, this is very hard, like, what is the? What does it look like for other people? Whereas in the past, I think I'd be like, I don't know, I guess and I and like, minimizing, you know, how hard it was? And where does that come from? And I, as you were talking, I was thinking about, I don't think that in our country, there's like a, like, even a blueprint for what is expected of being raising kids. You know what I mean? Like, there isn't just one like, there isn't this one set way to do it, because I think about, you know, there are some families who are very intergenerational where they have, you know, their relatives living with them. And it's just assumed, as soon as you have kids, that somebody is going to help take care of them. But there's also just as many other families that don't have that, and what they go into daycare is the assumption, I just like wondering, there isn't like a one way that we are conditioned to parents. And I wonder if it looks differently in other countries. And that's why it's, there's all these built in things. I don't know, I just like, I wonder, because I just don't think that that's even something that we're taught, we're not really taught, except through our own lived experiences, what it means to, to mother and the problem is then, as women our age, we just looked at what was done before us. And so if what was done before us was x, we're more likely to continue it versus having kind of like a culture around it, I guess, is what I'm trying to say, based on where we live. So it's interesting to Yeah, I think other countries that do that.
Kaitlin Solimine 18:30
I think where I kind of always end up landing is that I feel like where we are in American society is that we think like a capitalist system solves everything. So it just always feels like there's this way to solve it by paying for right like, whether it's like, oh, well you put your children into, you have to pay for something you have to pay for that care. And that worries me and bothers me. And I know that like the nuclear family, obviously, is a huge part of that. And I always am thinking about what would it look like if you were you know, a friend of mine who lives down the street who has three kids? Were always like, should we just how would we move in together and should we just is even obviously, I mean, even when you're just sharing and like an evening when the kids are like it just gives so much more support like I had this moment, the other day, I was giving the kids a bath and I thought okay, if we had one other couple here who lived in this house and they had other children or even if they did like there was like a younger sibling, there were a few of us and it was more of a group culture then like you don't need 111 adult could probably you know, help base three or four kids and then the other adult can be doing it you know, it just sort of like shares the responsibility of the household whereas now you know, like I mentioned cleaning out the gel beads of the diaper out of the laundry like it's just everything's falling on too. And yes, even in an equitable right with like you said, if you have if you have a partner, then even then, you know, what does that look like and I No, every structure looks very different. And it just still feels like there's just so much to do. And the solve in American culture always feels like we'll just hire it out, you know, we'll just make more, work more to then have to pay for your children to be cared for elsewhere. Like it, just feel them out of the way. Like they're in the way of America like, an elderly, right? Like say, I mean, anyone who does contribute in a productive way to capitalist society is needs to be kind of like pushed out and care, let's throw them in a nursing home, let's throw, it just doesn't feel supportive and nurturing. And like, like, as if we're all like, I don't know, I guess just the idea of, we're all responsible for like, there should be more of a communal sense of what we provide as a society and what that looks like. And I just feel like it's obviously I mean, like, I, I'm no expert on this, but obviously, it's completely broken down. And it works. People suffer in so many different ways because of that.
Jackie Leonard 21:09
Yeah, I am. I love how we can go from how gel beads and the washer. capitalism, but I do feel like we're in an interesting time. And I don't know, I don't know what I think's gonna happen. I mean, I don't really know what's going to happen, I feel like we're at a point where, because of the pandemic, it's really highlighted so many things around motherhood and parenting, because I have now so many people who, because of the way that the work structure kind of collapsed, that, you know, people were working from home and so at Agra did free up, you know, partners to work together it whether it was you know, the wife that worked out of the home and now is at home or the husband or you know, whoever to have, like two adults in the house kind of taking turns are working together in real time during the day with the kids. Like, opened up this like World of like, Oh, this is what it could be like, it was still really hard. I'm not saying it wasn't hard, but I think for some people, it was like, Oh, wow. And now to go back to where maybe it was just one person in the house, or both were gone and, and whatever. Going back to what it was before feels like there's going to be either I mean, I'm hoping that it'll like may make it more obvious that we need to do things differently. But I'm worried that we're so ready to just go back to quote unquote normal, like once normal is offered, people will like jump back into old ways. So I feel like it could go either way.
Kaitlin Solimine 22:48
But, and the word brand that the I was gonna say the trickiness or the slipperiness of working from home, obviously, and how that interferes with family life. Like, my daughter's always yelling at my husband, like, throw that phone in the trash. Like, I'm so sick of that thought, you know, because of the interference of it, like how visible it becomes for children. Yeah, for better or worse again, right? Like that could be like empowering. Oh, I see that my mother is doing this work right now. And I need to respect that versus right. I'm not seeing it. But the other thing you had me thinking about was early in the pandemic, I remember seeing the celebrity and I'm not gonna name her call it out, then I'll end up getting trolled or something. But I just remembered seeing she posted something about how teachers should get paid millions of dollars a year because I had no idea like, you know, like, now her kids are home and I was like, This is what makes you realize you didn't realize that like what like that's not as an individual, even just her but like that, that is a big, you know, that sort of in the same I actually just thought dropping my daughter off today at school was like, is this the right? Like, we just, it's, there's a huge childcare component, obviously, to education. And again, it's like, but that's not that shouldn't be what it's about. But now you look at even like, you know, before Karen, after hearing these schools, like are going like, you know, you have to drop your kid off so long, early and pick them up so late, because it's the only way that it allows you to make an income that allows you to live a life like does not feel appropriate or sustainable or nourishing in society that that's but that's but that's the salt, right? Instead of it being like, Hmm, maybe we shouldn't have to be working in this way. Well, it's just what will happen before Karen and after her program, you know, it's like, which I appreciate and I love that on our public school, that those are available that oftentimes they're free. But again, it's like but that's the solve for, well, maybe would maybe like we should not have to work those hours or commute that distance because that's where the jobs are, whatever it looks, you know, but it's so intricate, so structural, it's so hard to I mean, thankfully, I think there's so many people that are doing that work, though in like, very, you know, specific pieces of how to restructure that, and how to re examine that, and how to break that down and how to provide different support systems. But yeah,
Jackie Leonard 25:16
yeah, you you bring up the, like, you bring up the question is like, what is the need? versus what is like what's been like told is the need, you know, and this idea of child or mother centered care versus, you know, what, are we centering by these practices? Is it really we're doing it because it's better for the mom, or it's better for the child? Or is there some other better that we're focused on? And I think you're calling to the point, though, I don't know that we're necessarily as a society, not as individual decisions, we make these decisions because we have to, right or because, you know, it's survival, but like, as a larger thing, like, why are we creating these structures around things that maybe don't have to be there, it reminds me of the article, I don't know, if you've seen it was like, if a full time, you know, Mom, or parents was paid, you know, a wage for for caring for their children, they would make it was like 185,000 a year or something like that. And I was like, as you were talking, it was like, oh, we're talking about paying x resource to take care of y problem. And it's like, what if, you know, what if raising citizens for the world was something that we valued and gave to the people who wanted to do it, you know, because I don't know, maybe not every parent would want to do all of that work on their own. And there's something to be said about, like, you know, not taking it all on yourself. But having those options and having the choice to, to to be there if you want to or to have family members care and get paid for is like an interesting concept that I think we could probably go on and on about,
Kaitlin Solimine 27:00
yeah, no, you're reminding me actually that I was embarrassed to only recently come across Sylvia Federici, his work in terms of pay, you know, care at caregiving caregivers and pay and like, I'm trying to I'm like, looking at my bookshelf. Like, where's that book, but it's a great one to look at, like in terms of this subject matter and the work that she's done to try to reframe that, and how to value like, I mean, just the fact that it's not considered work right that you like leave the workforce when you become a stay at home mother just feels icky. Like, wait, what? You're so worthless work, and then you but you hire someone to do it. And it's work. So why then when you're not paid for it, it's not work. Wait a minute.
Jackie Leonard 27:49
Yeah. And like you heard about, like, how LinkedIn added the like, you could add in, I don't know what the job title was, but basically, like work from home, like or not work from home or stay at home parents or something to your LinkedIn. And I, I feel like it's a nice gesture, but I wonder like, are employers actually looking at, like, Oh, that's a skill or are they like, oh, okay, they just put in this little tag to say that they didn't work. Yeah, this idea of what is work also, I could go on and on just as somebody who like, I do work, I do things that are work, quote, unquote, but it's like, if it's not earning a certain income, or if it's not generating this revenue, is it considered something like is it considered work, I really struggle with even framing what I do sometimes as that for that reason, and I think a lot of that has to do with the way we talk about motherhood and the things that we try to do for ourselves outside of motherhood, that feel productive, that aren't really valued outside of our little circles, so anyway, I could go I think we both could talk about this.
Kaitlin Solimine 29:09
Yeah, that was just gonna ask you how much how much do I get paid for cleaning that gel out of the the gel diaper gel insert of? Like, what is that worth? What is that? It's because we live in that structure. Right? So it's like, everything has a value. And so that's the problem is that you can't then how do you value that which isn't? It does not fit within capitalist structures. Yeah, big questions that are just making me say a lot.
Jackie Leonard 29:40
Yeah. How much? Well, and then also value in terms of monetary, right, because exactly where it's like I was thinking like, Oh, well, I value being able to do a load later without having things in it. So I'll put my energy Right, right. Yeah, that come I mean, Anyway, yeah, like you said, that doesn't that doesn't generate wealth, financial wealth. Um, all right, I'm going to segue as best I can. And say that I would love to close out our topic today asking you to share three things. The first is what would be a song that you can think of that would describe your motherhood experience.
Kaitlin Solimine 30:34
So it's funny because the first song that came to mind was Joni Mitchell's all I want, which is not about motherhood and if anyone knows Joni Mitchell's backstory she's not a mother. In fact, she gave up a child early on in her life and career and she you know, wasn't able to mother that child through her life and so I don't know it's like an interesting one. But it's very much to me, kind of just speaks to how to navigate like identity and motherhood. Yeah
Jackie Leonard 31:12
I'll have to look that one up. I've been thinking a lot about listening to Joni Mitchell music so when you brought it up I was like, Okay the next question is what some solicited mom advice or a mom hack that you would share
Kaitlin Solimine 31:30
solicited Oh yeah, I had to think about that for a second as well after the diaper incident I was happy to see that there were plenty of articles I could Google in terms of what how to actually clean out a laundry machine which kind of cracks me up and it seems fine I survived everything all the clothing I was like washing newborn clothing too So I was thinking like oh man, um, but I always like I often heard like, the days are long but the years are short. And it still I remember early on feeling like it feels so cliche but it does help you know in terms of just the moment that you're in and that everything is a season and that sort of allows you to like let go a little bit through the motherhood journey of just being able to appreciate where you're at and like let go of some of the Yeah, that's the laundry
Jackie Leonard 32:26
Well, it reminds me what you were saying earlier because you shared a little bit about how you know the the fertility hurdles that you had in the beginning have felt like you said it softened you are like softening landing of motherhood and I really did think about how like I think every mother every parent goes through something many many something's right right like that. That wakes you up to that and you know it happens at different points in time but it's like it helps release some of what we thought motherhood would be once again not that we're like trying like like he's like I'm not trying to you know silver lining or after school special like hardships but it really does kind of set you up to be like, okay, like I'm gonna fail quote unquote or I'm gonna like have a struggle here and it's really hard and then something comes out of it on the other side and you're like okay, like that I made it through and you keep having those episodes big or small and I feel like you sharing that was a bit of a solicited advice that I think maybe I wouldn't have heard if I wasn't in it myself but having my own series of things that really set me you know were really hard and I overcame now when I look at it I'm like okay, well that was that helped I needed that
Kaitlin Solimine 33:55
and then it's like it's always evolving right like it's like you think i don't know i was just felt like I was when they when they become this age when they become this age, right and the other one is like bigger kids bigger problems.
Jackie Leonard 34:06
So just new level new devil this
Kaitlin Solimine 34:11
I haven't heard that one.
Jackie Leonard 34:14
Like in the business world, but it's like no, that's like, a certain age and you're like, oh, like I thought this age was gonna be right I my son's four and I thought four was like, Oh, I thought he was gonna be some like fully. I don't know what I thought I thought fully mature. Like I could have an intellectual talk with him and he'd understand and reason with me and no, that's not that's not where we're at. Anyway, so yeah, new level new devil. For sure. And you know, you mentioned this at the beginning, you're you are a published author, you you rights and are all i don't know i went on, I think you're always working on something. You know, I feel like you have a lot of writing that you do. You're a mother A mom salon contributor. And I would love for you to share some of your recent writing with listeners.
Kaitlin Solimine 35:10
Yeah, sure, thanks. Um, I was trying to think what would be interesting, but I think given the conversation I wanted to share it is the first piece that I actually wrote for another scope. Well, actually, maybe the first piece I wrote for the mom salon, and I might I'll just start it. I think it relates to what we've been talking about. Before I had children. During a writing conference in Lisbon, I devoured pessoas book of disquiet, and the meandering, I'll find my alleyways where even pigeons speak poetry. I sat on a bench and read feeling transported to historical Lisbon. Even in Portuguese leash Boa, pronounced these books, transform city to song, I was alone in Lisbon, and that made time precious. My partner and I've been trying to get pregnant for six months, I didn't know the extent of our fertility challenges. At sunset, I jog along the targets counting the days until my period was due. I got my period three days early and cried in the arms of another writer mother. A month later, I got it again and again and again and again. Until one day over three days later, I finally did. Now I reread passages of disquiet, desperate to know if the SOA had children. I seek a lion like the baby cried and I returned to the office a palpable silence. I find no mention of children. Why do I care this judgment? Why? Because he writes about time because he writes about nothing, because he has the time to pay attention to wander alleyways alongside meandering pigeons. He wrote, I don't know what time is, I don't know what, if any, is the truest way of measuring it. I wonder if a man meditating slowly inside a fast moving car is moving fast or slowly. I wonder is a mother inside a fast moving car mothering fast or slowly? I want the time to think about time to hold time and my mouth like an old coin size up its shape and worth how to measure time as a parent. That's it.
Jackie Leonard 37:12
I loved hearing you read that? I haven't read it in a few months. So it was it felt different. Thank you. Yeah. We'll link what was the title of that piece again?
Kaitlin Solimine 37:26
Oh, that's a good question. What was the maybe something about mothering and
Jackie Leonard 37:32
it's all linked in the show notes. And I think it was like if mothering slowly something like that, yeah. about that on the show. I'll link that in the show notes for you to read. Give it a read. It's it's really thought provoking piece. And related, I think, relevant to our discussion today. And how else can people get in touch with you and learn more about you on the interwebs?
Kaitlin Solimine 37:59
Kaitlin? Oh, good question. So Oh, gosh, I have all the usual social media junk. I'm on Twitter. I think that let's go Kaito I'm on Instagram at Sala meanie writer. I am on I think I have a Yeah, I have an author page on Facebook. My name Kaitlin salvini. Kaitlin with a K. And I'm always happy to talk about anything, though. So definitely, like reach out. I have, I think, you know, my email addresses on my website, which is my name calm. Yeah. And my first book is up in every, you know, available at local bookstores, and which I always try to push, you know, supporting indie bookstores. But my first book was empire of glass. And yeah, it's available at any of your local bookstores.
Jackie Leonard 38:50
Awesome. I will link all of that for you all to check out kailyn and her writing. I would love to read your book one day, so I'm gonna put that on my. And thank you. So I
Kaitlin Solimine 39:04
do not expect you to belong as a mother right now. So I totally get it.
Jackie Leonard 39:13
One day, one day. Yeah, exactly. But thank you so much for taking the time to share more of your story and just your art. It was just it's always so I don't know, upsetting but also just worthwhile to spend time talking about how we treat mothers and that conundrum in our society. So thank you for
Kaitlin Solimine 39:38
Yeah, thank you for that. I'm so excited about this podcast, and I'm excited for what's to come and all the stories that you'll be able to share.
Jackie Leonard 39:45
Yeah, well, you helped make that possible today. So thanks, Kaitlin.
Kaitlin Solimine 39:51
Thanks, Jackie.