The Consequences of Sex Misrepresentations in the Media with Dr. Rose Schlaff [Part 1]

Apr 19

ABOUT THE EPISODE

Today’s episode features Dr. Rose Schlaff, a sex and intimacy coach and pelvic floor therapist and we are diving deep into the consequences of how sex is represented in the TV shows and movies that we watch. Rose is truly an expert on how the representation of sex today is damaging to ourselves, how we form our sexuality and preferences, and how this is even more complicated for mothers. This conversation is dynamic and goes into many directions that I think are all important. Part 1 of this conversation is going to focus on the root of why we feel the way we feel, and next week on Part 2, we will chat about actionable steps we can take to heal this bit of our lives.

TOPICS DISCUSSED

How looking at the socialization and systems that women are brought up in can help women come back to their body again and how Rose facilitates this for her clients
The negative impact of pop culture never showing mothers as desirable and how it feeds the current culture as a whole
Why we have to be aware of who is writing/creating the media that we consume
How Rose has seen the biggest shifts from group work rather than 1:1 work from her clients and speaking to the importance of seeing one another
Letting go of perfection and giving ourselves permission to be messy in our communication
How movies and television create unrealistic sex scenes and the impact this has on how we approach sex, intimacy, and passion

RESOURCES MENTIONED

WRITING PROMPT

What were the first sex scenes you remember watching on TV or in movies? How old were you at the time and how did these sex scenes inform your impressions of sex at the time?

GUEST BIO

DR. ROSE SCHLAFF (she/her) is a sex/intimacy coach and pelvic floor physical therapist who has spent the last 5 years helping women and queer folks break down barriers to intimacy so they can feel confident, connected, and carefree in their relationships in and out of the bedroom.

In addition to her virtual sex/intimacy coaching practice, she is a guest lecturer for the University of Michigan’s Human Sexuality Certificate Program, San Diego State University’s Marriage and Family Therapy Program, and has had the opportunity to lecture internationally on the topic of sexual and pelvic health in Beijing, China.

To learn more, go to https://www.bewellwithrose.com/learn-more, check out Dr. Rose on instagram @bewellwithrose, or get in touch with Dr. Rose at bewellwithrose@gmail.com.

CONNECT WITH ROSE

Rose Schlaff 00:07
Hi, Jackie. I'm so happy to be here.

Jackie Leonard 00:10
I'm really looking forward to this I at first was like, well, we're not focusing on a specific movie or TV show, like, that's what I've been doing this season is am I going to have something to talk about. And as I was just making notes, I was just bringing up so many different things. So you have been somebody who has been on my mind to have on this show, because I just, I just love the work that you do and, and how you serve all sorts of people, but moms, I think a lot of moms come to you. And I just people are gonna I just, I'm just excited for people listening to get to hear from you. So can you introduce yourself for those listening?

Rose Schlaff 00:50
Yeah, so my name is Dr. Rose Schlaf. I am a doctor of physical therapy, specializing in pelvic and sexual health. And then I'm also a sex and relationship coach. So I have kind of gone on a bit of a windy journey. We were talking about this before we started recording. But you know, when I was growing up, I was always kind of that friends that go to person that people would share. You know, like, I've never told anyone this or this awkward thing happened. What do you think about it? And I feel like it's always kind of been my superpower to make people feel really comfortable talking about the things that are usually on talk about. Right, like, sex, calm, uncomfortable situations, emotions. And growing up, I was like, Okay, do I want to be a sex therapist? Do I want to be a physical therapist I had seen, my mom has a disability. And I had seen how transformative physical therapy was in just taking away her pain, improving her life without medication. And I felt like, wow, that that is such a superpower. And I found out that you can specialize in the muscles of the pelvic floor. Like, wow, this is perfect. I can be a physical therapist, but I can also help people with the things that are usually not discussed openly, right? Like, what happens after the baby comes, what's what's happening in my body, what's happening, you know, in the bedrooms, what's happening, if I'm having issues with peeing or pooping, and I loved my job from the moment I started it. And the reason I got to exactly where I am today, which is my own coaching practice is actually because I struggled a lot with my own health and being, you know, Doctor of Physical Therapy, I'd studied the human body so extensively, and I was in a really incredible facility that had a sexual medicine physician, and had a sex therapist and physical therapists all working together. And so I had seen, okay, the power of the biopsychosocial approach, that when I started struggling with my health, I went to the doctors, I went to therapists, I got a lot of answers, I did have physiological things going on, I had a hormonal imbalance that took about a year to stabilize. But even with the medical, even with the psychology, I still felt deeply disconnected. From my body, I felt deeply disconnected to my partner, I felt really drained after my interactions with my patients that usually filled me up and energized me. And I just wasn't quite sure how to find my way back to myself, right, this person who was always been really energized by connection, and felt really at home in my body. And what I found my way to was a coaching certification. And I actually went because I was trying to learn about functional nutrition. But before we got to the nutrition part, we started talking about all the things that people who are socialized as female, navigate in the world and why we are trained to give all of our energy to others to give really all of our our thoughtfulness, we're looking very clearly. Okay, how are other people feeling? How are other people going to feel about what are my actions are what do other people need? How do I meet those needs? Instead of really teaching people who are socialized as female to turn the spotlight in and say, What is my body? What does my mind what does my heart need right now? What do I want? It was so hard for me to even identify what I wanted, what I needed. It was really, really easy superpower to identify what other people need, which I think a lot of people who are socialized as female can identify with this, I've seen that at least.

Rose Schlaff 05:03
And a lot of just perfectionism over giving pressure, so much pressure about what it meant to be a good partner to be a good friend to be a good daughter to be a good, you know, professional in my job. And that pressure was crushing. I didn't realize how crushing it was, when I started really realizing some of these patterns that are impacting all of us. I started talking about it with my clients. And what I saw was, yes, I was having great results beforehand with the physical part and some of the psychological, but I think that without looking at the system, of why these things exist, why we are feeling this way. A lot of people think that there's something wrong with them or think that they're the only person that are feeling this way, like, wow, why does it feel absolutely impossible to feel like a good wife feel like a good mother, take care of my kids all day long, and then turn into this sex goddess at night, like, what am I doing wrong? Right. And I think once I started having these conversations about these systems, and unrealistic expectations, on women and queer people, I started seeing much better results with my patients. Not only were they coming back to their body, but they were actually not just like physically optimized for sex and intimacy. And having less pain in their bodies or feeling stronger in their bodies postpartum, I found that people were actually energized and excited at the idea of intimacy, because we were kind of changing the expectations and taking the pressure off. And that that has just been transformational for the way that I've moved through the world to look at these systems, the way that I've worked with clients, it's changed my life. And soon I found that what I was doing was no longer really fitting and an insurance based physical therapy note, right, the conversations that I was having that I felt really moved the needle forward really addressed, not just your physical, not just your psychological, but your relationship dynamic, the social, the socio cultural aspects that are impacting your sexuality. And I ended up here doing what I do, which is now creating a multifactorial approach to healing our sexuality, our relationship with our own sexual selves. And what I love doing and I do in my virtual coaching practice is I work with women and queer leaders who are feeling like they love their partner, they know they feel more connected when they have sex, but they just feel so drained at the thought of it. They're never feels like there's enough time or energy for sex. And they feel like there's a lot of stress and pressure surrounding sex. And what we do is we create ease, excitement, fun connection, we take the pressure off. And what I see in my clients, yes, there's more desire, yes, there's more pleasure. But really, at the end of the day, there's a deeper connection with themselves and their partners for years to come. And that's, that's the true gift I think of doing this work is when you shift all of these ideas, there's a ripple effect out to the rest of your life. So that's, that's me. That's what I do.

Jackie Leonard 08:39
Yeah. Yeah, I love the way that you mentioned that the work that you're doing now addresses like the system of why we feel these things because it really it really does connect to the question that I'm kind of trying to answer through this season on the podcast, which is like what is the source of all this mom guilt or just guilt that so many of us feel? I think we are I like you said, people who identify as female. It's like, kind of ingrained or socialized to feel this way. But like, on another level, becoming a mom, for me, I just, it felt compounded. And it wasn't even necessarily related to what I did for my children, it became even more like what I chose to do for myself often. What gives me guilt. What I choose to do with a friend gives me guilt because this new label that has been put on me that in so many ways, it's like I didn't even feel like I had control over what that looked like. It just became this new thing that made me the target of so many different opinions all of a sudden, and I was hearing through different guests I had You know, I, for some reason thought becoming a mom meant that nobody ever was going to desire me anymore except for my partner. And so then when it didn't work out with me and my partner, where does that leave me? I felt personally like once I became like, I had to do everything before I became a mom. Because after that, like, all of my desires, all my my dreams were like going to be put on hold or never happen. And so I was like, Where does all that come from? We know that that's what we feel. But like, where does it come from? And, and, and so that's why just talking about what I feel like has been just, for lack, for better or for worse, the source of all of our like, knowledge, a lot of my knowledge as a millennial person. Yeah, came from entertainment came from TV and movies. I was talking with my husband recently about how, like, for some reason, in the 90s, it was like, I think, because TVs became cheaper, something it was, at least in my house, like put a TV on every room. Yeah. You know, like, watch all the different, like, you know, have the TV on all the time. I know, people who grew up around the same time as me who were like, Yeah, I was raised on TV. You know, that's where I learned, that's where you learned I didn't, my parents didn't talk to me about sex, or my body or any of those things. And the only way that I knew differently than, like, knew anything was really from from watching it on TV. And I think in some ways, that was, it was probably really good for me to have that exposure. But in other ways, it formed some interesting perceptions of what things should look like. And I know you've talked a lot about the sheds, that the a lot of the people that you work with are kind of fighting to rewrite, right?

Rose Schlaff 11:51
Yeah, I was just thinking while you were sharing, we really don't see desire and pleasure with mothers on TV at all, right? Mothers are usually characters that are kind of the side characters, they're just support characters, they don't really have their own lives, their own feelings, they are usually supporting the main character who's, you know, desirable and experiencing pleasure. And even if it's not a realistic depiction of that. But, of course, of course, you had those preconceived notions, that's what we had seen. And I think it's just really freeing at times to identify, Okay, I didn't like come out of the womb, baby Jackie, it wasn't like when I become a mother, I will stop being desirable. It's like, No, you, you saw this again, and again, and again. And again. And again. And we absorbed it through modeling.

Jackie Leonard 12:46
Yeah, and I liked I, I like to push back on, I think, in the past, or I've heard people kind of be like, Oh, I don't watch that, or I don't you know, this, or it's not important, or really, you have all this to say about a movie you watched and kind of like diminishing the value of entertainment. And I don't know if it's a chicken or the egg thing. But I really do feel like what we see, even through celebrity culture is like, is reflective of our society, it's it's reflective of the beliefs that we have, or that are internalized. And then people that have the power to do so create these things on a more public scale for us to all digest and enjoy. And it's, I think, it feeds the culture, but it also is reflective of what is the culture at the time. And so I see it as a way to just really glean what, what we're what people, the people that be are trying to tell, you know, us as individuals, what to think about things and so for a long time, you know, I like that you point out that, you know, the mom was like, the supportive role, the mom was the one who did sacrifice or did give up their dreams and tell us the you know, the main character, go do this, because I never did. So where does that leave you? Once you become a mom, it's like, right, I didn't do that. I didn't I didn't have the time. 20 plus years, you know, like, I need more time. But then we're also told we have a biological clock, and we only have this little narrow window. And so where does that, you know, it's like almost like we're putting ourselves out to pasture before which is just not realistic. We've seen you know, that we're living longer all these things, there's so much more to our lives. But there is that disconnect. And I there have been, you know, more things more presently coming out that I think are trying to overcome that. But we can ignore that for you know, our formative years, we were given a different message and what I what I think is, so what really drew me to wanting to have this conversation with the deal was you you posted a reel recently that talked about the things that TVs and TV and movies get wrong about sex and relationship And I thought it was so. So like, I was so glad to see that because it's so true is the first thing you said was sex is basically what it looks like is passionate makeout penis and vagina simultaneous orgasm shortly after. And the reality which you laid out was just that most women and boba owners need clitoral stimulation to come. Only 18.4 reach orgasm from intercourse alone, even though that's like what you see the simultaneous, like, release at the end. And it's all very quick and, and seamless to Yeah. And I will say that, and I want to bring this up later in more detail. But when we do see it looked differently. It's often for comedic effect. So yes, it's like a sexy, it's this way, if it's onward, which nobody wants. Right, right. admit it's comedic. So then it's like, it almost adds to the shame because it's like, oh, that's happened to me. Oh, I'm not gonna tell anybody that was like,

Rose Schlaff 16:01
Yeah, right. This is a comedy. Mm hmm. Yeah. There's not like a valid experience. Right. It's

Jackie Leonard 16:06
the second thing you pointed out was most people could benefit from lube, regardless of how old you are. And you said, I've never seen it in a sexy in which I couldn't think of one that I've seen it used as, like a normal preference, right. And three, rarely see partners in TV or movies struggle with differences in desire, which, as you know, through your work, especially, it's super common in the real world. So I just love the way that you frame that. And it's, it really got me thinking about, you know, as you've already talked about, it's so much more beyond it's so much beyond the sex act, that you you address through your work. And that is a consequence of what we see. So when a woman or somebody who identifies as woman watches and if they are a parent, they see the mom you know, caricature depicted as like secular sexless a lot of times in movies, it's like, you see, or TV, you see the, like, the friction between the, you know, the, the husband, and the wife, who is the mom as like, we're not having sex. Yeah, the mom is too tired, or the moms nagging all day, and, you know, making the excuses and you have the poor husband who is sexless because his wife is tired with the kids all day. And that's just like the common trope, you see it over and over again. And the alternative, the only other time I've seen mom's sexualized is when it's like the milk, right. So then you see the milk character, which I felt like, became very popular in the 2000s, which again, was like our formative years, is like the hyper sexualized, like, cougar is like going after the younger, so it's not even through like, the relationship that they're committed to. It's always this like, kind of like, either a divorcee, or, you know, somebody who's having an affair that just came to mind was like Desperate Housewives. It was like the Eva Longoria character was having an affair with her high school. Yeah, problematic High School. Guard Gardiner. And that was where she was getting the passion in her life. And she her character was like, the selfish, you know, whatever character so it's like, these are the these are the two differences. We see the the one who's like, the more realistic mom, who is unable to have sex and not even really interested in it. And then you have the other extreme, which is like the hyper sexualized character that is a model that you like, are told kind of like you don't want to be Yeah, right. And so where does that leave anybody who wants to have you know, who wants to have sex in their life? And is finding like struggle struggle to get there? You don't even see that challenge? You don't even see like, it really accurately portrayed the way right. You know?

Rose Schlaff 19:03
So what I'm just thinking about is so much our media, especially, you know, 80s 90s 2000s is through the lens of white sis, straight men. Right? Same with porn. And that's why the majority of the stories that we see, and people who are not white sis, men are two dimensional characters, right characters of color, queer characters, trans characters, we don't even see those rarely, right? But when we do, it's very two dimensional. And same with wives, mothers, right? They're just these kind of like, side characters. We don't see their motivation. We don't see their internal struggle. We don't see. You know, maybe they do have desire, but they're so exhausted because they were up all night, or maybe they had desire from 10am to 12pm. And then, when 9pm hits, they're tired. Like we just don't see the nuance here because it's through This lens of, you know, people with privilege, let's be honest. So I think it's so important to have these conversations. I think it's so important now that different voices are being shown both in this is media, this podcast is media, right? You are changing the media narrative just with these conversations. But yeah, we need to center different stories and have different conversations and share the internal life of characters that are having full lives in the real life. We just never see it explored on TV and movies.

Jackie Leonard 20:40
Yeah, that's been a big focus on these, the season has been looking at the creators of these stories, because, and it's especially complicated when we look at entertainment industry, because it's not just the writer, it's not just the director of there's producers, their studios, it, there's so many hands that touch the story that we have to be at least aware of, because it's, it's not enough to watch a show that's about moms, and feel like, okay, this will be something that is for me, it's even the things that are created for for you, as an audience aren't necessarily being created by the people that have lived, walked in your shoes, or you have any real life like experience in the subject matters. And so I think just I hope that through these, these conversations, that people at least are just looking, you know, like, Well, I'm gonna watch this, I'm enjoying this, who made this who wrote this, I think, even though there are other people that maybe we want aren't going to be aware of, and where they're coming from, about their influence, to know that something was created by a mother. And as a story about mothers, at least, you know, okay. Like, the person who had a lot of the control over the storylines is a mother. Another like, an example that I found really interesting recent recently was I was seeing a lot of people posting and talking about the show euphoria. And, you know, from the get go, I saw Oh, it's written by it's created by a man interesting. I did some, like research on him. And he, it's a show about teenagers in high school, essentially. And the main character is I would say, she's bisexual, probably bisexual girl. And I was like, Oh, that's interesting. Like, he created this. And then I learned and but a lot of TV shows have a writers room. So I thought, Okay, well, maybe he has other writers in the room. He's the only writer on that show. He doesn't have He's like, he's a, I don't have an ever heard of a TV show that had one writer, the only writer of that show. And so watching it, if I ever get to watch that show, I have to be aware of that I have to be aware of like, there's something interesting about this. I mean, you know, I don't know him personally, but you know, just assist him hetero man writing a show about all these different things is just giving me just a little more pause than I would say, if it was written by, you know, at least the protagonist having similar identification would be I think, important. So

Rose Schlaff 23:15
right, or at least if there was a woman of color or a trans person, like the people who are depicted queer people in the room, right, in the writers room to say, okay, yeah, that's, I can resonate with this lived experience, not that one person can resonate with every person's lived experience, even if you have similar identities, but still just some sort of, kind of like finger on the pulse. Someone telling a story that is authentic to themselves. It's very interesting.

Jackie Leonard 23:46
Yeah, yeah. And so. So yeah, I think those those influences are important to think about, especially when it comes to the way things like, you know, sex and intimacy are represented, because, as you very well have pointed out, and I'd love to share with you to share more about this. Sex is one of those things that we've been conditioned, socialized not to talk about. Yeah. And the main place, so many of us go to for any sort of reference point, has been entertainment, in all forms. What have you what do you find to be like the, I don't want to say like the solution, but what is like the missing link for that? I feel like, yeah, we're going to these TV shows and movies to from as young as you know, our childhood and seeing things, and that's informed our like beliefs about sex. How can we kind of change that in a more positive way?

Rose Schlaff 24:47
Yeah. I think the more conversations the more light we can shine on this, the better. And we've we've discussed this multiple times, but I often will make the comparison In between, if you're trying to shift how you feel about exercise, if you're trying to shift how you feel about eating, quote unquote healthy or, you know, making a diet change that would make you happy. You know, most of the time, those changes are easiest. When you surround yourself with like minded people imagine that you're trying to eat less meat, and all of your friends love going to a steak house, and the only place to go together as a steak house, right? Like, it's going to be very, very difficult to shift that behavior to shift that belief that lead eating less meat is good when you're surrounded by people that are reinforcing your own old belief and old pattern. Whereas if you are friends with a bunch of vegans, and you want to eat less meat, it's a lot easier. And so I think having these conversations openly sharing your experience, so others feel safe to share theirs, and then surrounding yourself with other people that are working actively to shift these beliefs. And they do not shift overnight. Right? When we've had reinforcement after reinforcement after reinforcement, when I think about thought patterns in our brain, they're like paths in the wilderness. And the more we reinforce it with TV media, conversations with friends, conversations with parents conversations with whoever, witnessing other people, reinforcing these beliefs. It's like every time you're walking down this path, and this path is becoming more well traveled more easy for you to access. It's almost like if you've ever had a work commute, and you get to work and you're like, oh my gosh, I don't even remember driving here because it was so easy for my brain to just like, oh, autopilot, right. And so if we're going to be consciously shifting, think about we're going on this path that's now overgrown. Maybe it's not as well traveled, we need to make conscious choices and surround ourselves with people who are like, Oh, I know the way I'm also trying to go left instead of right, let's go on this path together. And I have a machete and we're going to knock down all the overgrowth that's here. And we're going to keep practicing traveling it so that the overgrowth doesn't grow back that I've seen, you know, I work with people one on one, and I also worked in groups and coming from the medical model, I always had this belief, oh, one on one is the best. It's it's the best possible way you get that individualized support you get personalized to you. And working in groups has actually shifted this belief, I still think some people benefit from one on one work in this area. But I have seen people have much faster shifts in their belief, and much faster shifts in how they feel about sex, how they feel about their body, how they feel in their partnership, and the desire that they're experiencing in the groups. And I think it's because so often when I ask people what's what's the most impactful piece of the work that we did together? They tell me knowing I'm not alone, knowing there's nothing wrong with me. Right. And when we're seeing median movies again and again and again. Yeah, even if we know it's unrealistic. You have the stats on this 4% I think of people think that we, you know, TV, and movie sex is realistic. And yet, it still impacts how we feel because it's the only example we have. And so when we're having these conversations and saying, Okay, it's not just me that feels this way, Ashley and Jen and Carson, they all feel the same way. Right? Like, we're seeing one another and feeling seen. And knowing okay, they feel the same way. And also they were able to shift it, it's possible for me.

Jackie Leonard 29:01
Yeah, it brings to mind like that definition of shame or the saying that I think it's like Brene Brown said something like shame can't live no where vulnerability or I am going to botch it. But basically just this idea that the shame is released when it is kind of held when people are able to speak it, and it is received without judgment, right? Yes. And so it is the word that was coming to mind as you're describing the environment where this can you know, be you know, we can kind of break down these preconceived notions is in a trusting and a place with people you trust or having a conversation with people you trust. And you know, I was going to share this in the beginning and I forgot but I have worked one on one with you and I what I the reason why I felt so drawn to working with you was because i i knew that i I, that being more creative as a person kind of seeking the things that I personally desire in my life, outside of sex, and outside of all those things was going to help me have a more fulfilled life in all areas. And I think when I was first bringing up this conversation, like, how can we talk about sex with people that we know more? And like, how can we demystify all these things? I think it comes from more like, of this place of just talking about, like, just having people that we trust in our lives, and slowly, you know, discussing the things that, you know, give us joy, the things that we want more of in our lives, like, we don't have to start talking about like, our, you know, most embarrassing, you know, sex things, you know, right off right off the jump, right, I think we kind of want to go straight to the source to fix instead of thinking about like, well, if we have deep friendships, if we have friendships, that we are able to communicate our like, you know, are more intimately with people. Eventually, when we have things come up that we want to talk about, it will be easier, and we'll be in a trusting environment to discuss these things. Because I mean, I have these conversations with people in my writing groups as well, it's like, you're not going to share your most intimate, vulnerable story. Yeah, on the first day, like you shouldn't, because then if people can't receive it in a way that, you know, in a, in a way that you're going to be validated. Yes. And you're going to shut down even more. And so it's the same way with like, Would you talk to a friend who is going to who has dismissed you before about something about, you know, an issue you're having, trying to have sex with your husband, probably not, you know, that's probably not the best place to go. And I think that's, you know, like what you're talking about in this like group dynamic, you're going with people who are like minded, who are having some of the same struggles. So you already kind of know, from the beginning that these are people that are probably going to have be able to communicate similar experiences as you versus a different setting. And so I think it's so important to find those, those places, and I know, it's not always easy. And I think that's why Also, it's important to, if there are resources that you know, of, or like a book, even just something that people can access alone, if they don't feel like they have it to start will help them be able to communicate more better, like more better. communicate that, uh, when they do find somebody that they trust that they can talk to.

Rose Schlaff 32:33
Yeah, and this is that right? There is a perfect example, like, we don't have to make it perfect. I understood you completely when you said more better, right? Right, you don't have to be perfect with our communication, it can be messy, and it can still be effective. And I think just giving ourselves permission to like, be messy and clunky and awkward. And like, Oh, that's not how I would have written it. But like, it's out there now. And you You know what I mean, right. And I think so often it is just practicing these little moments of talking about sex and opening the door, and I created a free resource that just creates some ease around this. It's called let's talk about sex. And it's basically a Mad Libs style. Fill in the blank, you can do it solo, just to kind of get some information about yourself, you can do it with a partner, you can do it with a friend, right? Whatever, whatever feels good to you. But just being able to go through and you can giggle about it, right? It doesn't need to be this serious thing are like, we are talking about sex now. So we must have our serious faces on right sex gets to be messy and awkward and silly. And we can we can laugh during it and still get really valuable feedback. So if you want to get that guide, you can go to www.be Well with rose.com/talk. And you can grab that guide there but I loved what you were sharing, also about creativity and how it unlocks when we embrace more pleasure when we embrace more sensuality, sexuality, and it truly is, you know, for those who understand the chakras and like talking about the chakras, right? The Sacral Chakra is a combination of our creativity and our sexuality for a reason. Pleasure, relaxation, joy, connection. All of these things get to come from sex and sensuality, when they we kind of remove some of those sneaky, like emergency breaks from society that are telling us we're doing it wrong or we're not doing enough every single time we engage and when we can take some of that pressure off and actually enjoy ourselves. There are so many ripples into the rest of our life. I've had people tell me they are making more money I've had people tell me, they're finishing their book that they've been working on for Like, ages, right? I've had people tell me, people who are trauma therapists themselves professionally, I've had them tell me that they're better therapists, because they feel more connected and grounded in their body during their therapy sessions because of the work that they're doing on their sexuality and sensuality and connection outside of that time. So I feel like, because this is something that's not talked about people think that this is this separate thing. Oh, what happens in the bedroom stays in the bedroom that's only impacting the bedroom. But truly, what is happening with our sensuality, intimacy, connection in the bedroom ripples out to the rest of your life, and you will see shifts? So I'm so happy you shared that.

Jackie Leonard 35:51
Yeah, right. Like, everything is interconnected. You know, and I think we're becoming more and more aware of that in recent years. But it's like, in the same way that I can't separate. Like, I can't compartmentalize being a mom, yes, I noticed that it affects everything in my life. It's the same with what you're talking about, right? Where it's like, my ability to pursue my desires, my ability to seek pleasure, is going to have ripple effects on every everything that my life touches. And so I can't and shouldn't compartmentalize it, even though I've been kind of trained to do that. I want to, like get back into kind of just the what we grew up on, or what we saw, and just kind of talk about, because I think it's so helpful, that you've spoken to this just to, to be aware, or to just acknowledge why we feel the way we do because I think, as we discuss, like the shame that so many of us feel, as Millennial Moms, some of a lot of the people who are in this community have young children, but even people that have you know, kids in their tech, you know, teens, there's just so many different things that moms are struggling with that make it hard to tap into that side of their lives. Even not for lack of trying, right. And I just, I was reading an article by refinery 29. And they talked about somebody, there's like a quote from somebody about the movie Titanic being like, the first SEC scene that they remember watching. And I was like, You know what, that was probably one of the persons that I watched as well. And, you know, it's the infamous, you know, sweaty hand on the, on the, in the car window, and they, you know, they, they have a very passionate night in a very small car. And, you know, it's depicted as just very, you know, romantic and passionate. So we've got a sex in a car seat, and then I started thinking, okay, what are some of the other sex scenes that like, I remember from, you know, my teen years, and you've got, I've got the notebook, which was, you know, another very, like, romantic movie where, you know, she jumps into his arms, and it's raining, and he carries her into the house, and it just also well choreographed. Then you've got like, the rom com movies. So I like thought of How to Lose a Guy in 10 days, that's shower sex, I think, sex in the shower, where it was also very, you know, passionate, and you know, seamless. And then you've got another movie that I thought it was Mr. Mrs. Smith, which has like a very, like, rough and physical, like they're throwing it. I mean, it's quite literally violence, just but also just done in a way that is also very sexy. And I'm just thinking about how all these impulse like these ways, people are having sex on screen that like, intuitively as an adult now, I'm like, those are not that is like, they do not happen that way. They're impossible. And I mentioned these because I think a lot of times as a mom, and I'm gonna put myself into not generalize, I'll say, like, I think back to like, yesteryear, right? I think about where life felt more passionate back in the day. And so I'm transported to my past, which naturally takes me to what I used to see in the past on screen. And I think I how do I get back to that? Or how do I re enact that in my life presently, and there's just it there's just no way to like translate that. And I'm not able to acknowledge that those are like unrealistic scenes to begin with. And I just, I don't know, I don't know if I have a question or whatever. But I just wanted to share that because I just feel like we a lot of times, I as a mom will think back to my past. Yes, what I am longing for and I just That's not realistic. Right? Right. But I think we're just trying to tap back into those feelings. And so I think this the solution is again, like I said, not like, going right at the, the, the symptom and instead going to the source, right. And so it's like, how do I reclaim that feeling that same kind of passionate feeling? It's not going to look like it does in the movies success. Not realistic, right? What are like some ways that you have found for that, like, some ways that you kind of assess or recommend clients to like, tap back into those feelings of like, excitement or passion with the cell phone or with their partners?

Rose Schlaff 40:41
Yeah, I It's so funny, as you were describing these scenes, I was trying to think of like, what would be like the ultimate mom porn where, like your partner, like, you know, put the kids to bed and did the dishes and like you you're like, in the bath, luxuriating and then you get out and your partner gives you a massage. And like, there's like a lot of foreplay.

Jackie Leonard 41:05
There's like, 50 hours in the day to write.

Rose Schlaff 41:07
Right? You've you've just woken up from an eight hour nap. Love, right, right, and just gotten back from a weekend alone, right? Like, there's just so many pieces that like, we could create fantasy that is still unrealistic, but like a fantasy that's more like, Oh, this is what I need in this season of life. And I just want to name you know, the sex that you have, as you know, in your 20s in college, later in your life, pre kids post kids, it's all going to look different. And it's it's all okay, that doesn't mean that we have to give up that passion, that feeling. But usually, what I help people identify is, okay, what are my go twos? Like, what are my perfect rituals that helped me build passion intentionally? And I think that's something that movies and TV really leave out, which is detrimental? Is this like intentional choice to engage in intimacy, this intentional choice to turn yourself on? And I think that the majority of the sex that we see in TV and movies is like, first time sex, right? Which is like, oh, my gosh, there's all this buildup and like, do they like me, and oh, my gosh, they do, right, and just a totally different ballgame than 510 15 years into a relationship. And what I need to name is people who have vaginas, the majority of the time, have more of what's called responsive desire, which is not shown on TV at all. And when I say responsive desire, this is sometimes I describe it as if you've ever gone over to a friend's house, and they're cooking food, and they asked you if you're hungry and want some and you're like, No, I'm not hungry, and then you smell their food cooking in your life. That smells really good. I actually would love some of that food. But you don't think that you want it until you smell it. But that's kind of how desire works for the majority of people in the long term relationships where if you were to just ask me out of the blue, do you want me to cook you food? I'd be like, Man, I'm not that hungry. Don't worry about it. But once I smell the food cooking, like, once I'm in a sexy situation, then the desire comes. And so instead of waiting for desire to hit to initiate sex, we have to acknowledge desires, probably not going to hit spontaneously. For most people, it doesn't. And there's nothing wrong with you, if it's not just naming that. And then really asking yourself, okay, what are the types of things that actually do turn me on if I want to intentionally start smelling the food? What are some ways that I can do that? Is that a romance novel? Is that a bath? Is it a massage? Is it kissing? Is it watching a show? I had a lot of clients love the show sex life, they would watch it with their partner and then be like, Okay, we're ready. Right? And no two people are the same. But knowing one. If I'm waiting for desire to hit, it's probably not going to hit out of the blue and that's normal. There's nothing wrong with me knowing to what are the things that do turn me on so that I can intentionally use them as tools in my tool belt? And three, what are the things that usually take me out of my turn on? Can I intentionally decrease those things? Right, if you're trying to get into it and then you look over and there's like an over flowing pile of dirty laundry does that immediately take you out of it? You know, if you are thinking about that email that you forgot to say And or if you're like, we really haven't talked in three days, we've been kind of like ships in the night passing off duties, but I have no emotional connection to you do we need to have a 30 Minute? I just conversation. So we can connect as humans beforehand, right. And so kind of making a list. There's a book called come as you are, which is highly recommend anyone check it out, it's great resource, but there, she has an exercise that goes into gas pedals and brakes, right? What are my gas pedals? What are the things that turned me on? What are the things that helped me get in the mood? And then what are my brakes? What are the things that inhibit that? And can we intentionally decrease the brakes and intentionally turn the volume up on the gas pedal items with full compassion and knowing that there's nothing wrong with you, and

Rose Schlaff 45:57
you don't have to have an orgasm in two seconds after not, you know, talking? Or arguing, right, that you're just a human and intentionally knowing that sexuality looks very different for a long term relationship and knowing that there's something wrong with you can be very freeing.

Rose Schlaff

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