Making Decluttering a Reality for Moms and What The Home Edit and Tidying Up Get Wrong feat. Courtney Florey
ABOUT THE EPISODE
What if we stopped apologizing for the mess in our homes? If you’re like me, a lot of the time the mess we admit to is not what our actual mess and clutter looks like. I know it’s easy to be worried about the judgment, so much so that we overcorrect. Which brings me to today’s episode with Courtney Florey – we are chatting about the popularity of decluttering and organization thanks to shows like The Home Edit and Tidying Up with Marie Kondo. Courtney is a decluttering coach and she has a lot of practical advice for decluttering our spaces that are often not realistically portrayed on these popular shows. It’s time to shed the unrealistic expectations and guilt that we attach to the look of our homes, and focus instead on creating spaces that serve us and our families. I hope this episode is full of tangible steps and motivation for you!
TOPICS DISCUSSED
Learning and working through the idea that rest can be productive and we have to create time for it
The overwhelm and emotion that can come with the (thousands of) photos we have saved on our phones
Courtney’s own journey with getting rid of the overwhelm through decluttering and the community that she has created
What Courtney appreciates and what frustrates her about shows like The Home Edit and Tidying Up with Marie Kondo
Some statistics on decluttering and what clutter actually is accordingly to Courtney
The common obstacles that hold people back from decluttering their homes
Courtney’s solution for finding what’s realistic for your family instead of fully diving into minimalism
RESOURCES MENTIONED
WRITING PROMPT
Spend the next five minutes doing a brain dump. Write down the mental thoughts that aren’t serving you, that are taking up the mental space in your head. Write them all down, then put them away.
GUEST BIO
COURTNEY FLOREY is a Decluttering Coach and the CEO & Founder of The Simplicity Society. She's passionate about helping overwhelmed moms declutter everything. Her mission is to equip women with the practical tools + support they need to create simpler and more purposeful lives.
CONNECT WITH COURTNEY
-
Jackie Leonard 00:06
Hi, Courtney, welcome to the podcast. Hi. I before we get started and have our conversation around clutter and organization for overwhelmed moms like me. Could you introduce yourself for those listening? Yeah,
Courtney Florey 00:24
absolutely. So my name is Courtney. I am a decluttering. Coach and I help busy overwhelmed women declutter their homes, the simple way I like to say, so that they can free up more time in their lives and space in their homes.
Jackie Leonard 00:41
So, I've had already floated that I was going to speak with somebody who specializes in this area. And the couple of moms that I told were like, so excited, because this is definitely an area that causes a lot of stress. And I always feel like we see the things like the signs when we need to, and I already today, I've seen like multiple things that talked about how clutter specifically gets in the way of creativity. And so much of what I do through mother scope is help moms find opportunities to like, be more creative and pursue their interests around like a normal, like, an a normal, realistic way, because our lives are more compromised as parents a lot of times. And so seeing that, you know, clutter gets in the way of creativity was just like, oh my gosh, that's exactly why this is important to talk about. Before we do that, though, is in honor of the topic for this season, which is mom guilt. I know you're not actually corny yet. But I do want to just have you participate in the what do you feel guilty of this week? Share? So do you want to go first? Or I'll go first?
Courtney Florey 02:00
Yeah, absolutely. So for those of you who are any Grimm lovers out there, I'm in any room for week three. So I love to get stuff done. Let's say that I like to be productive. I like to do you know, meaningful work. And so when I was thinking about my answer to this question, and right now, I'm kind of in a in a little bit of a slower season at work, which, you know, can be nice, it can be a nice break, but sometimes for me, it's hard to kind of take it easy, and you know, just relax. And I've seen a lot of posts swirling around, like, rest is productive. And you know, it's okay to take that time. And sometimes I'll find myself like, well, not doing anything like I should be doing something I should be working, I should be this and something that I'm learning is that, you know, it is it's important, we need to rest, right? If we don't make that time we're gonna, our bodies are gonna make that time for us. Right. And so, yeah, that's something that I'm definitely working through. And just trying to learn as I go about, you know, setting those I think, you know, creating that time for rest, when necessary in my business.
Jackie Leonard 03:09
Yeah, and I think I've gotten to the point where I can create time for us, but then also being able to fully rest is something that's even harder, or it's harassed without that, that guilt of like, I didn't get anything done. And I love this idea that you you know, that we've seen a lot around on like social media and just there's more awareness around rest is productive. But it's really hard to internalize that when we've taught so much of the opposite. What I've I was wanting to share you know, the obvious answer talking to you is that I felt really guilty of toy clutter we came home from like, a long road trip and I always like to clean the house before we leave for a trip because the it's the best feeling to come home to a clean house right. So the house looked great, we came home and then you know just instantly the kids of course because they like were away from home wanted to pull out all their stuff. And so that evening we went to bed and it was just like like a bomb went off because it just like pulled everything out and we were so tired. I guess I'm already sharing that I felt guilty like we have way too many things it's too easy for like the claim to get messy in a such a short period of time. But I am really intrigued about this idea of also the digital or the like the knots tangible clutter that exists in our lives now because of technology. And what I've been feeling really guilty of the past few weeks especially has been the amount of volume of photos and videos that I have in my phone. And for I mean, it's been two years now I've been telling myself like I need to get a handle on it. I need to go through these pictures. I need to pick out the good ones and print them out and make an album and i i Every time I sit down to do it, I get overwhelmed. And I think it's really hard for me because it's also on my phone and I'm trying to, like, organize on a small device, it's just difficult. And, you know, I keep saying I need to do it, and I haven't yet but that's so that's something I feel I feel a little guilty about, especially after taking so many more after being on a trip. I think I really just need to, like, make it a priority for like, a week or something and just get it done. But so that's hanging over my head.
Courtney Florey 05:34
I think, you know, last month, we did talk a little bit about digital decluttering. And, you know, I had some other moms who were sharing, like, I just the same exact thing, like, there's so many photos, and I feel, you know, bad that either haven't kept up with it, or now it's like, you know, if I'm deleting photos, and you know, like, I feel like I'm losing memories, right? And it can feel like, these photos do carry a lot of those memories or emotions with them. You know, even if you have like, 30 different snapshots of like the same, you know, event and you know, something that I advise them and advise you and you know, anyone listening who is feeling overwhelmed is just like you said, make it a priority and start just start right, it doesn't have to be done all at once. I mean, gosh, that would be insane. You know, but taking it day by day, and it doesn't have to be every day, like whenever you have that time just carving it out. Okay, you know what? I'm gonna do 15 minutes and just starting because I know, last month, you know, I started as well like, Okay, let's start the process. And I didn't finish it. But at least I have made progress right and can continue to do so.
Jackie Leonard 06:40
Yeah. Somebody I know who's a photographer, actually, her Instagram is at honey, photographs, I think I'll link it. She has this great practice that she shares about that she does personally where every month, she'll go through her photos and pick out 10. And she has like a service she uses where she just has them printed for her. And so that's been her way of being able to like stay on top of just her personal like pictures that she takes with her and her son are just from the month. And they're printed each month. And then by the end of the year, she's got like, 100 pictures that she knows are her favorite from the year. And I was like, oh, gosh, that sounds so great. As soon as like, once I get caught up that I could do that. So it's like, you know, it's a chore. But anyway, it it speaks to what we're talking about more in our conversation. So, so I'm really interested to hear first from you about your own kind of journey to the work you do. You have built this great community around just taking the overwhelm away from the getting rid of clutter to help, you know, eliminate the overwhelm that we so often feel whether we're moms or not. And I'm just curious how you got there.
Courtney Florey 08:01
Yeah, so it all started. I always I say it all, it all started in a trailer because my husband and I got we got married live apartment. And one night, he asked he randomly said, What would you think if we got rid of like everything? We owned an RV and looked at it? I was like, what? So I thought about it? And I said, Yeah, why not? We were young. We said, Yeah, let's do it. You know, it's just the two of us. And don't do dogs. So we said Yeah, and we and we did it within like three months, we had gotten rid of, you know, furniture and the things that we just couldn't take with us. And we were living in our 20 foot trailer. And it was an adventure, to say the least. We learned a lot. And you know, during that time, I knew I wanted to start a business, but I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. And I started thinking and I thought well, I had worked as a nanny for I mean, five over five years. And I had seen inside of the homes of I mean 10s 10s of families if no probably more than that probably over 20 families over the course of you know, babysitting jobs versus nanny. And just seeing how much clutter really weighed on families and especially moms, right, just seeing the burden on them. And even, you know, kind of being responsible for taking some of that on as the nanny because, you know, when the kiddos were there, I was tidying up and most of the time, you know, it was more voluntary because I thought, well, you know, I'm going to tidy up the house and they're going to be so happy when they come home, you know, and that was just something that kind of came naturally to me. And so, you know, as I was thinking about what kind of business I want to start, I thought well why don't I you know, I want to help women get their homes in order and at the time, I thought Well, I think I want to be a professional organizer because that was the that was kind of the more well known title, being a decluttering coach or things like that. It wasn't as well. I don't know, I guess so I thought, well, I'll help people organize. But then I started researching Okay, what does a professional organizer do, right? And then I realized, no, actually, I want to help people get rid of their stuff, not necessarily, you know, put it in bins and baskets and make it look pretty, but actually get to the root of I have too many things, which is why I'm so overwhelmed. Let's get rid of what I'm not using or needing right, so that I can free up actual space in my home. And, you know, I've always been, I've always been a pretty simple girl, just kind of like, let's just get to the basics, don't complicate it, like, just kind of give it to me how it is. And so that's really where dicovered was born.
Jackie Leonard 10:41
That's really interesting, because I love how you I mean, I think it's like, once you're in it in that world, you see the challenges that are faced the, you know, the these moms that you worked for faced, it would be, like, a whole different thing, to have not had such a bird's eye view of, of what, what's really like what really they're facing. Because it's one thing to say like I'm an organized person, so I'll just teach other people to be organized. But if by you having that kind of first hand experience, you got to see just like, all all the things and I'm sure somebody who's naturally just doesn't carry a lot of literal baggage around you to see like, all the little pieces of toys, and all the things was like, Okay, we need to do something about this. But But I think you also probably got to know or empathize that with that situation as well. Because I know for myself, before I had children, seeing all that I was like, I will never have have that kind of stuff in my house, or I'll never have that much. And then now living at and saying just, it's just a whole different set of circumstances that that we face as parents to, to manage so many different things. And then also to contend with all the the gifting and all the like the justifications for keeping things I'm going to have more kids. So I should hold on to like all that stuff really just does. Factor in and, and I and yet I appreciate someone who is not a parent also helping with this because I think you don't have the same attachment to like, you know, oh, I can make an excuse for like, Why can't get rid of this, because of this and this and that. And you could be like, well, you can or, you know, there's a way to preserve that memory or make, you know, hold on to the things that are the most special, but not everything needs to have that same weight. And so I can imagine that that's a really helpful, you're a real helpful asset to moms for that reason. So I'll say a little bit more about this in our intro, but I I was most inspired to talk to you about this because I I think I saw like a teaser that the show the home edit, which is on Netflix was like going to have a new season coming up. And it got me thinking about this idea of perfectionism on Instagram that I think there's it's Instagram and Pinterest and, and some of these shows that are about like remodeling your homes and all that stuff. They've gotten really popular, I feel like in the last few years have done some good and also kind of maybe created this expectation of what your home should look like. And that pressure. On top of all the other pressures that mom's face, I think has been very like it's almost made it made us feel like frozen or stuck. And a lot of shame around the state of our homes. And I remember when I first I think the tidying up with Marie Kondo show came out on Netflix, I think it was like January 2020. It was like right before the pandemic and I remember everyone got so into just like getting rid of things like that became just this huge popular thing like get rid of all the junk if it doesn't bring you joy, throw it away. And I was curious to see like, what, like how what the after effects of this all were and then a show like the home edit came out where it was like all about hiring home organizers. So I thought it was interesting that it's like I think people got really inspired to to declutter and do something massive. And then like a year or two later, it was like, Here are these home organizers that could do it for you because it's hard. And I guess that's like a roundabout way of saying like, what has been your experience as somebody who works in this field? Seeing shows like that? What do you appreciate about them and what do you feel maybe a little frustrated with or limited by? Because of them
Courtney Florey 15:00
Yeah, I'm really excited to talk about this because I am all about realistic decluttering. And I'll talk about that a little bit more in a minute. But starting with tidying up with Marie Kondo, I did also watch the show. This was, I mean, this was a few years ago, because it's been out for a while. And something that I really liked about her is in in her show, I remember her doing this. And it seemed a little silly, but the meaning behind it is what I think is really important. And I remember having lino to go into your client's homes, she would have them, thank the items that she was sending out the door. And, you know, it might seem silly, like, well, it's just stuff like, you know, that's a little too much for me or whatever. But when you get to the root of that, I can see how that can be helpful. Because something that I say is that items can serve us and seasons, they're not always going to be with us forever. And I think it's really freeing to know, okay, these jeans, or, you know, these baby toys, or whatever they are, maybe, you know, served me for a year or two years, and I don't have to feel guilty or bad about letting them go now, because that season is over. And that's okay. And you know, now I can pass them on to somebody else. And so something that I like that she does is kind of address that value, that the item maybe had at one point or the emotions that were attached to it right or maybe still are, and just kind of have them pass it on gently and say, you know, thank you for serving me. And now I can let it go. And it just feels it feels a little bit. Hopefully, it helps people feel a little bit easier, about you know, kind of letting it go. A couple of things that I feel are maybe a little bit unrealistic for moms, I know for her she she recommends doing it all at once. So I think she had said like picking a room. And just kind of getting it all done right then and there. Because you know, you're in the zone, you're in that mindset, like just kind of knock at a lot at once which depending on the day and time and maybe who you are and your workload, maybe that's realistic for you. But I know for my audience of busy moms, that just isn't feasible to do an entire room in a day. And something that I always recommend to my clients is, you know, 15 minutes a day, right? taking it step by step, breaking it down into small projects that feel more manageable, because something that I found is there are there does seem to be this realist or this unrealistic expectation of you know, I have to do all at once or not at all. And so it can feel like, well, if I have to do the whole kitchen today, I can't do that. So I guess I just can't do anything right versus let me take one step forward and make a little bit of progress here. Something that she also, we've all heard this quote before, you know, she she prompts us to ask ourselves if an item sparks joy, which I think is a great question to ask. But I think there are some other questions that can be asked as well. And I think she does a great job of, you know, help guiding her clients through making those decisions. But something that I see often, you know, from people who are quoting her is like, one asking myself, if this sparks joy, and if it doesn't, then I get rid of it and me be like, well, that's not realistic, because my toothbrush doesn't spark joy, but I still need it, like, can't get rid of that, you know, or whatever that might be. And so a question that I like to ask myself, you know, when I'm decluttering, or encourage my clients to ask themselves are, is does this serve a purpose in my life right now, because there are going to be things that you know, bring you joy, and that's great. Definitely have things that make you happy in your home. But not everything will but it still might be practical to keep. So those are kind of my thoughts about tidying up with Marie Kondo. Did you have any thoughts?
Jackie Leonard 18:52
Yeah, I definitely. Feel like what I was hearing you say was that there was some like misinterpretations of like, the way she presented things because I think when I read her book, because I read the book before I watched the show, and I remember watching the show, and seeing a lot of articles come up afterwards. And people were talking about this idea of sparking joy and I felt like her she really kind of spent a lot of time in the book talking about what that means. It's not necessarily like oh, this makes me happy. So I'll keep it this makes me stressed out so I won't or I think some people also like, kind of manipulate the word joy and are like I really love this shirt. I haven't worn it in four years, but I'm going to keep it because I and and, and so I think some people took things very literally or they misinterpreted and so it gave a lot of room for over generalization of her practice. I definitely agree with you about how I felt very limited trying to do it myself. When with the whole regard of like getting it done at once because what I found is I would go through my closet, I'd throw everything on the floor. And then something would inevitably, like time would get away from me or inevitably, my kids, my son would wake up, and I wouldn't have time during naptime to do it all. And then I would just have a giant pile of clothes on my floor, that would sit there and sit there and sit there. And eventually I either like, you know, put it back where it originally was, or I stuffed it in bags to donate, and I, they sat there for a while, you know what it was like, it felt unfulfilled to try and have these like false starts. And so in that way, I felt like it didn't feel realistic to me, I felt stuck, I had all these blocks. And what I felt watching the show a lot also, just cuz I think I just like a more empathetic person. Or I could just see the deeper layers to the people that were on the show. It was like, I could see that there were a lot of emotional things that were creating these, these unorganized homes for a lot of these people. And the show kind of played into that they shared like this person, spouse passed away. So this person is like holds on to all these things. And it just, I just remember just feeling really sad seeing just like, how quickly are like the state of our lives can lead to this kind of an organization or clutter that you saw on these little these, each of these episodes. So I guess I just felt like these people need so much more than just like to declutter their home. And, and yet, I guess I just also saw how that clutter was creating a lot of unhealthy situations for the people too. So it felt like less like a fun show to watch and like kind of deeper when I was watching it. So I think it brought up a lot of things. Seeing that on her show. And I appreciated it. I think I just I've seen like you said sense, like, there's almost like it's become part of our culture now to hear like, does this spark joy? And I think it's being kind of used incorrectly in some ways. But it is I love the idea of thanking things before you get rid of them. Because like you said, it does sound silly, but I don't think we admit how much of an attachment we have to things. And so by being able to do that we can kind of finish the cycle, so to speak. Yeah. And so what were your thoughts on? Have you seen the homedir? And what have your thoughts been on that? viewing experience?
Courtney Florey 22:36
Yeah, I did watch. I think I watched an episode of the first season. And this was a while ago, I thought, Okay, I'm gonna watch it. And you know, just kind of see see what it's all about. So I will say the summit, something that I appreciated, as I think probably most people do is, you know, they create these really beautiful and functional spaces. I mean, who doesn't want a beautiful looking home? Right? They have, you know, the homes that they show are very appealing to the eye. I will say that. But something that I think is unrealistic, especially for moms or even just women in general. But for moms, I know with, as you had mentioned, you know, there are so many things on the plate of a mom, it's not just the house as kids, it's, you know, work. It's so many things, right? And so having that pressure to keep up or have this perfectly organized home can be overwhelming, it can make us feel guilty and shameful, right, like we were talking about in the beginning. And I think I think the home edit, you know, they are professional organizers, which I understand, but I think they place a very heavy focus on organizing all of the things right, when, in my experience, and in my work, the problem is clutter, right. And so what we want to do is eliminate the problem, which means we need to address it, and then we need to get rid of it or get rid of the things at least that we don't need, right. As opposed to spending more money to purchase more things like bins and baskets. Those are still things right that we're bringing in to then store more of our things inside of it. Especially if you have kids. I mean, what happens when you have your basket on the ground, right? And your three year old comes over and dumps it all out? Wow, all of the clutter is now out on the floor. That's not solving the problem. merely putting a band aid over it for the time being. Then, you know, five minutes later, you're frustrated because you spent all that time you had you know organizing and making it look great only for it all to come crashing out on your floor making you feel like I'm a failure. I'm not doing it right. You know, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing enough and just just overwhelm and I think just this massive feeling of guilt like I just can't get it Write, write can never do anything, right. And I mean all of these emotions, right, just start, we just don't thinking about them. And something that I'm so passionate about is getting rid of the excess. Because the key is always less stuff. Because ultimately, this means less to fuss over, pick up clean, trying, organize, manage, like, less to deal with, right, and when you have fewer things, and you're not clean as much and picking up and not looking around feeling overwhelmed, because there's just so much, you have more time for what matters to you, whether that's, you know, getting work done, or being with your kids or being present with your family. So I know I've had so many women say like, I just, I'm always cleaning up, and I want to actually be able to be present with my kids, instead of kind of playing with them kind of cleaning up, you know, looking around feeling like ooh, like I belong to do list. So I have to go do this. And I think there are there are different levels of what people want. Some people want to learn how to do it on their own. So people want somebody to come in and do it for them right there. And I understand that there are just different services. And you know, people want different things, something that I you know, in my membership, I equip women with the tools to do it on their own, I don't go into their homes and do it for them. I'm teaching them these real life skills that they can then implement in their own homes, the home edit, as I believe, you know, they they can be hired to come in and do it for you which again, some people want that. And I think that's totally fine. But just for me, and what, what I think, is just a little bit more realistic, I like to actually teach them the skills so that they can do it. Because I know we were I think we were chatting off air, but it can be easy to, you know, have somebody do it for you once and then okay, in a month from now, then you're like, Well, do you hire them again? Can you afford to do that? You know? Or are you going to kind of pick up the slack and figure out how to maintain it on your own. And so that's something that I really enjoy doing, because I think it's a lot more sustainable in the long run.
Jackie Leonard 27:11
Yeah, and I'm hearing a lot from what you're sharing is that it's like, this is a lifestyle. This is like a more like a mental shift that has to take place for it to actually stick. It's not something that like you're going to get to a place and then you know, tada, it's easier, because if you either do it yourself or you hire somebody, and they completely Declutter Your Home, get rid of everything you need, and then you go back onto Amazon and just fill up your space all up again, you're gonna end up right in the in the same spot you were in. And that's like, I think the missing component of both these shows, I think Marie Kondo does focus a lot. And I do think there's also a cultural disconnect with the show, because she's Japanese. And I think she that in Japan, they have a lot smaller living spaces and America, we're very much into the consumption of things. We have statistically bigger homes. And so what do we do with bigger thing spaces, we fill them up. And so she's like contending with like, also just a culture that does not kind of have the same ideals about things and, you know, minimalism. So I think there was like that disconnect on the show where she's like, telling people get rid of these things. And I wonder after she left, and helped them through this, how much of that stuck. And I think same goes for the home addit, where it was completely removed from the people they like, kind of show them what they need. And then they work their magic. And that instant gratification, I think, is also very problematic, because we see, I mean, even I watched the one episode of the home edit last night, that was the new season. And I kept like thinking about how rushed, they kept saying they were they're like, we're going to run out of time, we're not going to have this done, they're going to come home and they're going to see it's still messy. And I was like, obviously that's like the gimmick of the show. But it was like that's we have this expectation where it's like, oh, I'm going to spend like it's taking me forever. I'm doing this wrong, when really like you said it's like these small little it's just it's a very long process to kind of go through all your things and figure out what you need and you don't need and then you also have to continue that kind of lifestyle to maintain it. And I really thought it was interesting listening to the episode that I just watched. Drew Barrymore was one of the sometimes on the home edit, they help a celebrity out and further Drew Barrymore they like helped organize her prep kitchen on her like talk show. And she made a comment that I felt like was so relatable, which is like you know, just funny cuz she's Drew Barrymore but she said, You know, I know I can clean up a row my can make, you know, a space look nice. But I always feel like a failure because I can't maintain. You know what I do, I can't maintain, you know, this clean home. And I that resonated with me so much, because that's exactly how I feel I know I can clean up our home, I know I can make it look nice. And then the inability to maintain it is the challenge. And what I hear from you is just the disconnect, I think that we often have is that we're not we're still filling up our spaces with so many things that inevitably, we're going to feel like a failure if we have more than we need. Yeah, obviously, I was influenced by the home added a little bit because I color coded my book. As you can see, people listening can't see. But I did. That was one takeaway that I was like, I could do that. That's kind of fun. It looks nice. Like you said, they make very nice looking things. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I did want to share, I was pulling up a quote a statistic data about, you know, our current states are just like what our homes look like now, and I thought this is really interesting, because you spoke earlier about moving to a trailer and how that like totally shifted this new lifestyle for you, in a different way. And I just read here that the median single family home is currently 2300 square feet.
Jackie Leonard 31:36
And in 1950, it was only 983 feet. And in 1970, it was 1500 square feet. So we were like, we're gradually getting bigger, like the average size home is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And so like I said earlier, it's like you get a bigger car, all of a sudden, your bigger car is full, you get a bigger house, your bigger house is full. I don't think the problem is like, so often we think, Oh, we don't have enough space, we need to get something bigger. And that, like we're trained to think that way. And really, it's, we can live with so much less. And we just are not even aware of what that looks like. So, so that's like what you're contending with when you're working, you know, with like, your community because we just, I mean, these stats are just like kind of overwhelming me. So I had to like close the, the web browser because it was just talking about how much we spend on clothing per year, how many? How like how many tons of things we throw away every like not even just things like trash, it's like things, we purchase things that are unnecessary, and then how much we throw away every year. It's just, it's a lot. And I think the accessibility to purchasing things has gotten so much easier that it's like gonna continue to get worse and worse unless we make a conscious effort to do it differently. The other thing I thought was interesting that you may be aware of, but I read on an article from my mother Lee that clutter creates stress that has three major biological and neurological effects on us. It has an effect negative on our cortisol levels, our creativity, and our ability to focus. And we also experience actual like pain or the same sensations as pain when we are like in clutter. And according to Cornell University study, stress triggered by clutter can also lead to coping and avoidance strategies, like eating junk food over sleeping and binge watching Netflix, maybe even binge watching shows like The tidying up with Marie Kondo and I thought that was really it. I mean, I felt like okay, yeah, that's totally me like how many times have I been overwhelmed by just the sheer you know amount of mess with toys or the in the kitchen with dishes and things like that and just completely checked out. And that obviously creates a, you know, a ripple effect on our health and our wellness and all that so, I mean, I think we all know that it's not good. I think what I would love, you've already shared a little bit of this but I would love to hear kind of what are some of the I guess well let me back this up. What do you think? What is clutter to you? Like what would you say is clutter?
Courtney Florey 34:48
Yeah, to me, I say I have like a one liner. What clutter is and clutter is the things in your home that are taking up space that are not serving you And today, because like I mentioned before, you know, there are things that service and seasons, maybe it was useful at one point in time, and it's just still in your home because you know, you haven't gotten rid of it. But it's no longer serving a purpose or being a value to you right now. And taking up space, physical space in your home, and even mental space in your brain, like you said, with, you know, feeling like there's just so much to do. And, you know, even though you know, there's dishes to be done or laundry to be put away, it can they can just can hold us back, you know, and prevents us from doing so many things, because it just leaves us feeling paralyzed.
Jackie Leonard 35:39
So to go off of that, then what do you feel like are the blocks that people at least that you have worked with experience around this idea of decluttering getting rid of the things that aren't serving you?
Courtney Florey 35:59
Yeah, I know, I know, a huge one is mentally just feeling like it is so overwhelming, and that it's just a lot to where it almost again, you know, makes people feel stuck and holds them back from even taking a step. Even if I'm like, you know, just 15 minutes a day, even that can feel like a lot when you're looking around at everything that you have. Because you know, there are decisions that need to be made, right? If it was just stuff, then we would just get rid of it. Right? It would be easy, but because there are these emotional attachments, right? Because there are these memories and feelings and thoughts that come up, as we pick up and hold you know, certain items and think oh my gosh, remember when bla bla bla right? That really is the tricky part. And so I think a huge one mentally is getting past that barrier of kind of, you know, the what ifs or what if I need this someday or, and I know that's a big one. Because you know, people, we don't want to be wasteful, right? We don't want to spend unnecessary money down the road on things that you know, we could have kept or but at the same time, we can't get caught up in all the what ifs, we have to look at what is important now. And you know, and I mean, I will tell you 99% of the time, I would even maybe say 100% of the time, people do not regret, at least the women that I've worked with have not come back and said, Oh my gosh, I really regret getting rid of X, Y and Z, they come back through like I feel so free. And I'm so glad that I did it. Because now I have the capacity to do the things I want to do. And I'm not cleaning as much and I have more space in my brain. Because I don't have all this not only just stuff but all of those decisions laying around my home.
Jackie Leonard 37:51
I like I really liked the definition that you used of clutter, because it did make me think of like, the focus on the word present, I think is so important. Because that's something I run in to a lot often with my husband is he'll be like, well, we might need it later, or we will probably use it down the line. Or if this comes up, we might need this. And I'm kinda like, Well, we haven't use we, you know, we recently moved at our house when we got rid of a lot of things. And that was a conversation we regularly had was like, we haven't we haven't touched this in like, five, six years. Like I don't think we actually need it. And so it was like that, that that tension play. And then of course, there have been a couple of things that came up where I was like, Oh, do we, you know, we had this and he was like, Oh, wait, we got rid of it. And I was like, of course you know, but I loved I appreciated that part of Marie Kondo because she said, you know if, and I felt like she said, there was like one thing that you could have that you have, like you break the rules with, it's like, if it's books, or if it's movies, or whatever it is, but you can't like go crazy. But like you can kind of bend the rules with some things. But like, she said, like, for example, if you have a book that you bought, and you never read it, you should get rid of it. And her thought was like, if you really, like needed it, or wanted it, you would have read it. And if you didn't, then you know like it, get rid of it. And when later down the line, if you want to read it, you could you know, check it out at the library, or you could buy another copy. And it kind of seems extreme, but it's also like, Well, that'll teach you to have like, more caution or just think more a little bit before you actually buy something in the future. And so I liked kind of the extreme the extremity of that because it forces you to be more like to think more before you buy something. So, so that's a big one for me is just always like, well, I could use this later or sometimes I find myself doing buying things like clothes for my children. And I'm like, well, they're going to be in that size later so I'll get it but it's like that kind of thinking could be rational sense. times, but most of the time, it's probably not necessary. And I think we bend the rules a lot. And then that's when you end up with a lot of different things that are just taking up space. I'm so I, as we were talking, I was like, You know what I would love to just like, give you like a real situation and like, get your input because I think I loved when you brought up the idea of like, all these buying all these bins and putting toys in it, because I feel like I have looked to things like Instagram or Pinterest or blogs and been like, Okay, what do these people do their spaces look so nice. So what do they have? Oh, they have a bin there. And that looks so pretty. So I'll just throw all the toys in there. And I've been falling victim of that like situation where I've tried to create create these, what I see. And then like you said, As soon as my, you know, kids get up and decide to play, they dump it all out. And I have to deal with either, am I gonna just constantly clean up behind them? Or am I gonna wait till tonight and clean it up? Only for it to just look nice while we sleep? And I guess I've heard that your answer is you have to you know, like, cut back on the amount of things you have. I feel like my big like sticking point has always been like what I see on like social media on Pinterest is like, they it looks like they have like such little things or they don't even have colorful toys. And I'm like how like, they look like they put all the pretty things out. And that's all that they have in their home. And that's not reflective of like the toys My son likes to play with. So I guess I'm trying to understand like, what is the realistic version of that is what is like the solution to keeping like a reasonable amount of things out. So it's not just overwhelming to the Census while they're playing, but also not like complete bearment minimalism.
Courtney Florey 42:05
Yeah. So like you mentioned, I would say to cut back on the amount. And that's definitely the first step is figure out what is realistic for you right now. Right? How many kids do you have? What are they playing with? What are their favorite toys? What are they always gravitating towards? Chances are as their mom, you probably know the things that they always play with, right? And so you can kind of look at it from that bird's eye view and start to figure out, Okay, once you figure it out what they play with, then you can go in and look at, okay, what are they not playing with? What are always, you know, being left in the closet? Or what are they kind of picking up and putting down right away? Because that'll help, like, those kind of indicators will help you to determine, what do I keep? And then what can I pass on? And then after you've gone through the process of decluttering, then you can absolutely figure out, you know, how can I store these things, and I should share this, I know that I talk a lot about decluttering. And I'm like, you know, don't worry, like organizing, you know, you don't want not that I harp on organizing, but I do focus more on the, you know, letting go and decluttering part. But I do want to say after, really what I want you to do is focus on decluttering first, because then afterwards, like we don't have to store stuff, you know, it doesn't mean everything is just out and about, of course you can, you know, have some bins and baskets to store the toys that you have. But kind of what I'm getting at is you don't want to use that as your like magic fix, right for Well, I don't know what to do. So I'm just gonna buy all these things versus let me sort through them. And then you know, yeah, have fun with it, get some, you know, I'm all for a wicker basket. That's, that's my favorite. Or if you like the clear tote or bins or you know, whatever you like, totally have fun with that. And something to that I have found to be really helpful for some of the moms in my community is having a toy rotation. Now I know this doesn't work for everybody. And you know, so everybody kind of has their own preference. But some women have found that it's really helpful for them, because they can have you know, two or three different rotations, so to speak, or groups of toys that they're bringing out whether it's once a week, which that might seem like, you know, kind of a lot to keep up with maybe it's once a month. And I don't want this to feel like one more thing, because I'm sure some of you are like, Oh my gosh, like one more routine to stay on top of. And you know, you can try it out and see if it works. But I know it's been helpful for both parents and kids. Because there are fewer toys out at one time. The kids actually play with what's in front of them, or maybe they don't play with it and then you can see okay, maybe it's time to get rid of that right. And the rest are stored away whether it's in a closet, the garage, whatever space they have, right it doesn't have to be this perfect system. But it helps because like I said the kids have less to play with which means they're actually playing with those toys for longer periods of time because they aren't so overwhelmed by the amount, right, the decisions and all the different options that they have, which is a whole other topic of like more options can actually be more overwhelming. And it helps the parents because there's so much to pick up. And so you know, they can kind of model that to their kids like, Okay, it's time to clean up and it feels more manageable for everybody, right, they can get the kids involved, the kids kind of know where everything is going. I remember I had a, one of my members was like, my daughter actually picked up her toys today. And I was surprised because she normally doesn't. And she said it was because we have fewer toys, and she knew where they went, Okay, all the Barbies go in this bin cool. And she knew exactly where to put them away. And I mean, come on, like, who doesn't want their kids to pick up after themselves? Right? It can be hard, it can be challenging, but that alone can really help, especially when they have, again, fewer things to manage, and they kind of see you modeling it, they can then begin to start taking responsibility on their own.
Jackie Leonard 46:00
Yeah, I mean, it's so true. Like I said, when we came back from our trip, when the house is nice and clean, they are all excited to play. If it looks like a bomb went off, and all the toys are scattered around, it's like, that's when they seem to be acting up the most is when they can't even figure out what they want to do. And, and, you know, I don't want to like, enhance the guilt that we might be feeling for especially those people listening. But it's like, it is true that if we are feeling overwhelmed by our surroundings that our children are going to be as well. And so I do, I'm glad you brought up the idea of like the toy rotation because my son, like the idea of getting rid of certain things. Because he loves He loves Hot Wheels. Like that's his thing he loves. He just has tons of Hot Wheels. And every, like family member that had extra ones gave us like their old ones. And so he just loves to like play with different Hot Wheels. And so I've thought to myself, like a toy rotation would be good for that situation, because put them away for a while and then you bring it back out. And it's like it's something new and you have like a more manageable amount to contend with versus like a giant thing of a ton of Hot Wheels. And so yeah, the struggle is real. So yeah, that was that was helpful, and I only collect my thoughts. Um, I I feel like there's such a positive ripple effect, to what can happen when we figure out how to create more just visible space in our lives. And so what are some of the impacts that you've noticed, with the moms that you've worked with? Once they're able to like? I mean, it's a work in progress, right. But once they're able to feel like they're getting a better handle on the clutter in their homes?
Courtney Florey 48:08
Yeah, first and foremost, they experience freedom, because they feel they're not tied down to this stuff. They're not as overwhelmed looking around their home feeling like there's just so much to do, I'm so behind, right? They feel like, okay, I've made a step. And I love that you said, you know, it's not like, Okay, I've reached the end, and I'm done. Sometimes it's just like, I took a first step, and I feel good. And now I can take step number two, right? Like I can continue putting one foot in front of the other, continuing to work on making progress in my home. Because like you and I have mentioned, you know, it's a process, it's not a one time thing, it's not a quick, overnight fix. It's something that you lifestyle, like you said, right? Something you have to keep up with and continue if you want your home to be clutter free, beyond just, you know, the one day that you organized or the week that you decluttered. And another one is less stress. I mean, like he said, You know, there's studies that have been shown that cortisol levels are higher when there are when there's clutter, because we feel well, all the things burden overwhelmed, frustrated, we feel tension, you know, it can just be such a source of stress and when you can eliminate that. I find that people feel a little bit more at ease in their homes, which I think all of us one and another one is going back to what I was saying earlier about you know fewer things means there's less to clean up have more time like this is a real thing. They have more time in their day, because they're no longer spending, you know, all weekend cleaning up right or an hour every single night. When there's less stuff. It's like I can do a 15 minute tidy up and Okay, that's all I need to do because I don't have all the things that I used to and now I have no time for and I think I keep going back to like, well, what matters most and what's important and when you can simplify and get down to, you know, I say the essentials. And this doesn't mean like being a crazy minimalist, but the essentials, meaning you know what is serving you now, you don't have all the extra stuff, which means you have more time to do what you want to do.
Jackie Leonard 50:21
And I think it's important to you point, you noted this, it's important to kind of let go of some of the perfectionism because I run into this a lot, where I want everything to be an org, like, everything would be organized, everything to look perfect, I want it to be, you know, just all the decor and everything to look so nice. And I kind of let that hold me back. And sometimes when I just hurt Jenny shots will, I'll encourage how she does is really a great thing. She She focuses a lot on body positivity and stuff, but she does this thing sometimes where she'll post on her stories. Like she sets a timer for like 10 minutes, at the end of the day, and just says like a quick clean of her kitchen. And she shows like The before and after. And like sometimes that's all you need to do. And I know that like the clutter is something that you have to like, just continuously work at and like, you know, work toward managing in small bites, realistically as a mom, but even if you just sit down and do like a you know, set the timer for 510 minutes and do a clean like that could be enough to help you just like mentally, like relax. And a lot of times that I trick myself into thinking I need to wait until I've completely you know, organize this, this office or this dance, before I can do something for myself, or before I can have a nice movie night, you know, after the kids go down. And that's like, that's not true. You can still like, you know, do just small, little changes lead to you know, big results over time. And so I just want to stress that, like, our messaging is you know, about like the gradual progress and also just like letting go of some of that perfectionism that that isn't your realistic ideal, like, think about what it is that you actually value and helps bring you to that place of, you know, satisfaction in the presence, right like like you mentioned with like even the definition of clutter what is serving you what is not serving you right now. So it's like you it's it's a lot of just kind of tuning out all the things that we see and thinking about what works for you and your family to help have a peaceful home, right. Yeah. Before we and our chat, I wanted to kind of do a an either or this or that kind of game with you. Summer so you're gonna basically tell me I have two options, which one you would choose? Okay. And out of control play room, or a 10,000 unread emails.
Courtney Florey 53:07
Oh, my goodness. Well see, I want to say play room, but I feel like I can't because I don't actually have. Okay. I was gonna say, so I was gonna say a play to me when I'm thinking about this because I was just mentioning how I was doing some digital decluttering I feel like, like, the playroom actually would be Oh, I was gonna say, more manageable than environment. I'm thinking that's tough.
Jackie Leonard 53:39
What would you want to deal with? To work on? Or what would you be able to sit with?
Courtney Florey 53:47
I'll say the playroom I think was easy for me personally.
Jackie Leonard 53:52
Yeah, I guess I should have modified that. Maybe made it like an office or something. That's the office. Yeah. Office versus actual emails. I picked the office. Okay, yeah. I'm hired organizer or DIY. Yeah, why? thrifting for clothes or capsule wardrobe.
Courtney Florey 54:19
For clothes, capsule wardrobe. Well, I love to thrift. So I would say thrifting cat Well, capsule wardrobe. That's a whole nother topic that we could get into but you like the idea of it as long as they're, well. If you have a real I don't know if you saw it, but I have a real like showing my closet because last month we talked about the closet anyway. People were like, I feel very anxious looking at your closet because there really isn't a whole lot. I wouldn't say it's like a capsule because to me, you know, I feel like that gets into like, all the rules of like two pairs of jeans and it feels very like rigid. But for me, I just know, I have what I like and then I can like mix and match. But anyway, so I guess I'd say thrifting I'm 15 for clothes. Yeah, okay.
Jackie Leonard 54:59
Stop. Got for discounts, or only get what you need.
Courtney Florey 55:05
These are really great questions. And I hope this resonates with people because I am definitely somebody who loves a deal. But my answer is only get what you need because I don't want to deal with the extra stuff.
Jackie Leonard 55:17
Repurpose or get it out of the house. The house we kind of talked about this, but buy storage and organization items or use what you have.
Courtney Florey 55:34
Most times I say Use what you have. If you do have extra things laying around. I think you can get creative unless you know you don't have anything then maybe buy but for the most part, I'd say Use what you have, if you can.
Jackie Leonard 55:45
Yeah, that was one of the things that I thought was interesting about Marie Kondo is she like was big on like using shoe boxes and like little Yeah, making finding things. They're not as like pretty. So I think that's like part of it. But But yeah. Bare countertops or use intention. intentionally use any functional space.
Courtney Florey 56:11
I'll say I'll say intentional, intentional space.
Jackie Leonard 56:15
Okay. color coordinated organization or neutrals.
Courtney Florey 56:20
Neutrals all the way.
Jackie Leonard 56:24
Weekly cleanup or daily routine.
Courtney Florey 56:29
I think a daily routine feels a little bit more manageable, at least for me.
Jackie Leonard 56:33
Awesome. Thank you. That was fun. So how can people connect with you after listening?
Courtney Florey 56:40
Yeah, they can find me on Instagram. My username is at declutter indwell I have lots and lots and lots of content there. Just for you know how to get started. I have some fun reels. As you know, we have to we have to do reels, right. So lots of lots of fun content there. And I also have a membership community for those who maybe want to take a step further. It's called the simplicity society. And it was designed for the busy overwhelmed mom who wants to declutter her home, and ultimately, her wife, with with a community of women because like we talked about decluttering can feel really overwhelming, it can feel burdensome. And I have found for me, it's so nice to just have people doing it with you. Right doing it alongside you cheer anyone being that support? As you make some tough decisions, right when it comes to decluttering. So that's, that's available as well. And if you're listening, I love you know, send me a DM on Instagram, I would definitely love to connect and get to know you.
Jackie Leonard 57:39
Yeah, and I can imagine that the community space that you hold through your membership is just really validating for moms, and they'll be able and people and anybody who joins can see what real what it looks like in real life versus you know, the, the Pinterest perfect kind of example, that doesn't, that doesn't resonate for a lot of people. So I've always found that when you get into a community space like that, the real stuff, the real, like we feel more personally, like we can identify with it. And so that's probably such a great tool for so many people. So I recommend everybody check out Courtney and I hope that this conversation helped relieve you of the pressure that you feel to get rid of clutter and also feel inspired to do it as well. So thank you so much coordinate for this conversation. And I got some clarity. Thank you for having me. This was fun.