Disney: The Hero’s Journey and Missing Moms
ABOUT THE EPISODE
I'm not sure if this is an episode for the Disney fans or the Disney foes, but either way it's happening. For today's episode, I'm diving into Disney animated feature films and their impact on motherhood. Listen in to hear my thoughts regarding Disney’s “mom problem” – absent, dead, or troubling mom characters in our most-loved films, and the many missed opportunities to celebrate motherhood. I had so much fun dissecting these films and learned a few interesting tidbits about Disney’s history too. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did! Listen in and pass it along to your fellow Disney loving (or not so loving) mamas. Movies discussed include Tangled, Encanto, The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Brave, Frozen, and more!
TOPICS DISCUSSED
Why Jackie thinks it’s important to take a look at the Disney franchise and their impact on not only our kids, but us as mothers
Jackie’s current guilty pleasure of listening to Disney movie soundtracks and why she’s drawn to them
The tragic death of Walt Disney’s own mom and how this may have impacted his early writing
The highlighting of Disney movies that have a mother character vs. those that do not
Some of the missed opportunities to highlight motherhood in a lot of the popular Disney animated movies
A couple noteworthy female writers within the universe of animated Disney films
RESOURCES MENTIONED
Wikipedia: Roles of Mothers in Disney Media
WRITING PROMPT
Rewatch or think back to your favorite Disney movie from childhood and settle on one. Then, rewrite the story with a more prominent or a supportive mom figure.
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Jackie Leonard 00:00
I'm not sure if this is an episode for the Disney fans or the Disney foes, but either way it's happening. For today's episode, I'm diving into the Disney animated feature films, which is a specific cannon within the Disney conglomerates. And one that I feel especially influenced by as a millennial. I was like three or four when the Little Mermaid came out. And that set the wave for what is known as the Disney Renaissance, a series of films that Disney made that were animated and highly critically acclaimed and won Academy Awards, I believe.
Jackie Leonard 00:47
So my childhood years from I guess three through I mean, 10 had films like The Little Mermaid, like I said, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King, all really strong Disney films that have gone on to be made into live action films now and all this. So I really felt like Disney was something I wanted to dive into. Because obviously, it's such a huge presence in our culture for many years. But I feel like it only continues to grow, as they've acquired different studios over the years, and are, you know, now into Marvel and the comic book stuff, they've just continued to grow. So their influence is not something that we can avoid, for better or for worse, right. And as parents, we now are exposed or more aware of Disney and what they're doing, because our children are a target market for Disney. And so I know a lot of you have kids who are obsessed with in Kondo. And we're obsessed with the frozen series and all that. So I'm going to talk about a select number of films. Obviously, I can't get to the mall, I'm not going to get into movies like Pixar, or any of the live action stuff. And for ones that I'm not as familiar with or haven't watched, I might like kind of gloss over a little bit but won't get into the the more details that I would with a movie that I am familiar with. Before I dive in, I will say even if you're somebody who maybe doesn't watch Disney movies, not a fan, I think the stuff that I've collected, and then I'm going to share with you all through my research is pretty fascinating. And like I said, I think at this point, Disney is so huge that whether or not we like it, they are very influential, they have likely influenced your life in some way and will continue to influence the rest of us and our children. So let's dive in. So for starters, to kick off every episode from here on out in season two, I want to open by sharing something that I am feeling guilty about or guilty of mom guilt, so to speak, and using that to segue into our topic for the episode. So this week, I have been guilty of listening to a lot of Disney music and I'm not especially you know, I don't know that I would identify as a Disney fanatic or fan I feel closer to neutral than like a big fan. I mean, I do have a Disney Plus membership. And I get really nostalgic about rewatching some of my favorite movies. But I'm not like an especially big Disney person. I have been at other points in my life. So I'm not exactly one way or the other. So listening to Disney music just for fun is not quite me. And on top of that my kids aren't especially excited about Disney yet either. My son I've tried multiple times just doesn't really like watching movies, let alone Disney movies. And so anyways, so to be listening to Disney Music is a little odd and unusual for me, especially now. But I found myself wanting to in recent weeks, listen to happy music and music that my kids would be interested in listening to as well. And so one day I just put on a Disney playlist and and got into it and my son recently, just this past week really asked if I could play some Disney music when I was driving him to school and so that's become kind of our thing lately, and I can't even say that I'm guilty of listening to Disney music with my kids. The reason I'm confessing this or guilty feeling about it is because I'm listening to it a lot by myself. I actually so when I dropped my son off from school I continue to listen to the Disney playlists. I pick my favorites songs and all that I sing along. I even went for a walk the other day and decided to put on the Disney music. And it's kind of laughing to myself thinking about like, if I was walking by and somebody could hear that I was listening to Disney music, I'd probably be embarrassed. Or if I was driving and had to roll down my window, I'd turn it off. You know, just why do I feel a little shamed of enjoying Disney music without my children? Why am I hiding behind my children to enjoy these Disney movies? I just find that interesting. But more than that, it got me thinking about why like, why am I listening to this music? Why am I drawn to it right now. And
Jackie Leonard 05:40
I think a big reason one that i I'm sure a lot of you can relate to is this music, and Disney as a whole, really. And I say this, especially if you feel like it was a part of your childhood. Not everybody, maybe watch Disney movies growing up. But for me, at least, it brings me comfort. It's like an astrologer thing. Listening to music, from movies that I used to watch when I was a little kid kind of take me back and are a little bit of an escape as well when adulting is hard and the world is heavy. So so I don't know, I think that might be why I've been drawn to it. So those are my you know, those are my guilty feelings for the week. There are plenty more I'm sure but I thought these were definitely appropriate and timely given this episode. So to expand a little bit more on my prior relationship with Disney or my biases, with Disney going into this I've shared a little bit already I'm pretty neutral but leaning more favorable than neutral to Disney going into my deep dive into how they tackle motherhood I've always kind of casually heard and observed that moms are either killed off or not even mentioned in a lot of Disney films. And I you know when I was growing up, I grew up in Southern California. We just recently moved out of state so definitely was a fan of Disneyland when I was in college I had a Disneyland pass and would go all the time. And then I kind of burned out on it to be honest. So most of my like young adulthood, I didn't really watch a lot of the movies that were coming out still feeling like I catch I'm playing catch up on a number of the ones that came out like post 2010 or so. But I've watched most and I'm familiar with most and have enjoyed many of the ones I've seen. But like I said, I'm not like a diehard Disney fan by any means. After I became a mom I was kind of excited to rewatch Disney films and like I said my son just hasn't been that interested. He he really loves loved he hasn't really watched that recently but he really got into cars so you know all three cars movies, those were big you know on repeat for a long time he really likes and and got into Lilo and Stitch which is one of my favorites. And also Mulana at one point. So those are we're really the only ones in our rotation and have stayed that way for quite a long time. We did recently watching condo together and he he did like it and he liked some of the music in it. So I felt excited that we were able to get through a Disney movie with together. But not a diehard hasn't really had that like extreme love of any movie or attachment to any characters since cars I would say. So. So I've been a little left out of the you know, the uncountable excitements that I've seen other parents have with their kids or even frozen was maybe a little ahead of him. But the other factor I would say is my son has been kind of scared of a lot of the ones I've tried to watch with him. I didn't realize how much drama and trauma are in a lot of these Disney Feature films. I remember one time I tried to watch put on the Little Mermaid with him and thinking, you know, this is a pretty, you know, bland movie, it shouldn't be too scary. And within the first few minutes, there was that big shipwreck scene. And he got really scared and I was like well, you know, he's I think it was like two at the time. That's kind of scary. I as a result just haven't really gotten into Disney the way I expected to by by this point in motherhood and obviously my kids are still young but yeah, it's been kind of fun to go back and look look at at Disney with a different lens.
Jackie Leonard 09:40
So the first place I wanted to start is I looked back at Walt Disney's history. I did like a lot of different searches like why are there no moms and Disney movies? You know, Walt Disney mom, things like that. And this is what I found so there isn't like one confirmed reason or explanation why Disney specifically has movies that have largely excluded moms have killed off moms and all that. But many people think that the reason Disney movies lacked mother figures was because Disney's Walt Disney's own mom had a pretty tragic death. She died unexpectedly in early 1940s, shortly after she and Walt Disney's dad moved into a house that Walt Disney had purchased for them. And he was able to do this because his early films have been successful at this point. So what happened with the house was there was a furnace leak that had never been fixed properly. Walt Disney actually sent some people from his studio to fix it. And it caused both his parents did get sick from it, and his mom sadly ended up dying due to that gas leak furnace leak. So a lot of people speculate that Walt Disney felt so guilty and was grieving so much related to his mother's death that in his subsequent films that explains why mother figures just were not prominent or missing, and maybe why mothers were killed off. So tragically, people have disputed this because this was a problem even before his mother died. So if that's true, why didn't they appear in his earlier films, but that's that's one Berry. Another explanation is that a lot of the Disney animated features, maybe not a lot, but a good number of them were originally Brothers Grimm stories that were adopted by Disney. So they, you know, stay true to some of the, you know, core elements of the stories to include no mothers, so you could blame the Brothers Grimm for that. And so of course, I did a little research on them didn't find anything substantial. I
Jackie Leonard 12:05
mean, this is from so long ago, the 1700s was when they were alive. But I did find that they lost their father at age 11. And they were somewhat affluent before that. And because their father had passed away, their mother was forced to let go of their tutors and servants when the brothers were, I think, in their, like, early teens. And so maybe they had some resentment toward their mom for having to lose all those things after their father died. I have notes that their grandfather was influential, but not really a lot of fails about their mom that I could find in my research. Around the ages of 20 to 23, their mother died, and they had to care for their younger siblings. So a lot of maybe unexpected responsibility influenced them. This is all like reaching. But those were the things that I found. So a little interesting that you know, these stories have come from men who lost parental figures early. And I know Walt Disney's mom died when he was already an adult and established but if the theory holds true, her dying unexpectedly in in a home that he bought for her, I could see how that could be kind of traumatic. So who knows if those are actual reasons, or if it's just a product of their time, and misogyny and all those other reasons that we could blame for why mothers have had such a limited presence and influence and Disney films but but they could be reasons. Just to clarify, also, I have I just found my notes that brothers Graham stories that have been made into Disney films include Cinderella, Rapunzel, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and the frog prince. So I'm sure there are more that maybe have influenced Disney films, but those were the main ones that I found. So I thought that was interesting. Those findings at least gave me some inclination. Other theories that I also found as to why moms and parents at large are pretty absent, or have been basically killed off in these Disney films is that it creates a conflict and hardship for the hero who's often a young child to overcome in the story. It's just like good storytelling. Essentially, some of the recurring themes in Disney films are like growing up the absence of parents or hardship making a child grow up faster than they otherwise would, and having to step up. As a result. I also found via Wikipedia. Some feminists such as Amy Richards believe it is to create dramatic interest in the main characters. So similar to what I was saying if a mother was present to guide them. They argue there would not be much of a plot. Some entertainment journalist believe that it is to show that a happy family does not have to consist of a mom, dad or a child and that a family can be one parent and one child or one parent and many siblings. So I don't know. I mean, I could see that theory. I will say, having looked at the full list of films that include more prominent mother figures, they rarely exclude a father figure, if that makes sense. And like I said earlier, I'm not getting into Pixar films. I know Toy Story, for example, has Andy's mom who is presumed to be single. But within the Disney animated feature films, I did not find very many that only had a mom with children. I could probably count those on my hand, compared to the films that have a father or father figure with a child. And often which I think is far worse is that when moms are present, they many times are problematic, abusive, or get in the way of the hero. Some examples are like the evil stepmother or a very dismissive mother figure, or one that's just kind of Meek or not present like they're there, but they don't really have a role that's that's important to the film or the plot. Some exceptions I have noted, are Mulana Though I will say that her father is a much more present than her mother. And her mother is really in service of her father, there are some times that she defends Molina's father's actions and even justifies them to Molana as a reason for why he's doing the things he's doing. And her grandmother in that movie is very influential, but she dies early in the film. So her role isn't as prominent as if she had continued to be in the movie and somehow assisted her more obviously, I know that there was the whole spirit of the grandmother, you know, protecting her and caring or through.
Jackie Leonard 17:05
I thought that was really powerful to the movie. But I wonder you know what it would have looked like if her grandmother was somehow alive and able to support her in a different way, and frozen. I have not seen Frozen too, but a mom did share with me that the second movie has a powerful storyline that involves some backstory with an analysis mom. And I thought that was really interesting. And I'll get into frozen a little bit more later. But I still have to call to question why these parents especially moms, have to pass away to have a more prominent role. So like the grandma and Molana and analysis mom in Frozen two, why did they have to die to have this impact on them that somehow drives the story versus if they were alive and present? What does that say that they have to die? You know, in The Lion King, there is a mother for Simba. But we all know that the Father Son dynamic is much more powerful and much more prominent in the plot of The Lion King and Simba his mom Sarabi is kind of more subservient like and obviously they're like playing to the pack rules of Mother Nature with this lion herd. I don't know if that's what they're called the line pack, I don't know. But I still feel like they had this opportunity to possibly have a more strong mother figure and she's still kind of pushed around and at the mercy of scar. When she does try to stand up to scar she gets like Backhanded by scar and and Simba comes and saves her so a little something but nothing to really take note of the only other film I thought of and would have been interesting to watch if I had more time was the arrest of cats. I haven't seen that in forever but there was the mom of the the cats that I remember. But what I do recall is that a male cat saves the family so I'm not sure how positive the mother role is or how much she actually does. That is noteworthy but but I did remember that and also in in 101 Dalmatians. Perdita is another mother that is around as well as Lady in the tramp, which I definitely should rewatch because if I remember correctly, Lady is actually a mother Don't quote me it might not happen in the first movie now that I remember. But if she is, that would be especially interesting because I don't think in my whole Disney animated feature film search any of the main characters any of the heroes and the story are moms. We might get a girl we might get a woman you know character, but but not moms. So anyways, I thought that was interesting. Another movie that I wanted to note has a mom in it. Shock is Hercules and I remember when Hercules came out I was really excited about it because I'm a big fan of Greek mythology. But something worth noting is that the mother the quote, unquote mother, and the Hercules movie is Hera. But if you know Greek mythology, Hera is not Hercules mom. In fact, Hera is Hercules stepmother, who was not happy about being a stepmother. She was very angry that Zeus who was a philanderer had impregnated I believe she was immortal. And I don't have his actual mother's name according to the mythology, but in the Hercules movie, Hera is Hercules mother and Zeus is Hercules father. And I felt like that's kind of it was a missed opportunity a little bit, because if they were going to make Hera Hercules mother to, you know, simplify things for children's movie, why didn't they make Hera a much more powerful figure, she was known to have this like crazy temper, and just be really powerful and like, assertive, and she was just kinda like a mom, she wasn't anything like worthy of noting, in the beginning, she's like, really protective and be careful with the baby.
Jackie Leonard 21:09
But that's about it. Again, Zeus was the prominent parental figure in in the movie that influenced Hercules. And Hercules does have adoptive parents who seem supportive in the movie, but they really play a very small role to the plot. I'll list off some movies that I found alternatively, that were ones that represented fathers really well, but he raised didn't mention the moms at all. And I know that a lot of these films had sequels, but they were often straight to DVD kind of movies. So I am not familiar with those as much and haven't seen a lot of them. So I don't factor those into the stories. But in my little, you know, looking into them, I did know that a lot of times mothers may be mentioned in some of these sequels, but they are often dead, they just actually let us know that they died. So those films are the Little Mermaid, Aladdin Beauty and the Beast. Like I said, these have movies where the father's played big roles and are influential to the heroes the main characters so King Triton, who is the Little Mermaid father, Ariel, and Maurice, who is Belle's father in the beauty and the beast, the sultan, Jasmine's father, and Aladdin, Goofy Movie has a father and son it's very Father, Son, you know, heavy movie, no mother mentioned. So I want to thank the mother script community at large I pulled people on Instagram and asked for recommendations for movies that I should focus on more closely in this episode, and one of them that stood out to me that multiple people mentioned was tangled. And I can't remember if I had actually seen tangled before, I may have watched bits and pieces in the past. But it came out during a time when I wasn't especially watching a lot of Disney films. So it was good to rewatch it. I rewatched it last night. And I took tons of notes. It was really, really interesting. Especially for those of you who know that there is this mother figure who is the villain. And obviously she kidnapped Rapunzel. So you know, bad lady, but she is a mother figure, like Make no mistake, especially the way she's presented in the beginning. There's a song that she sings called Mother knows best. So whether or not we're, you know, aware as an audience that this is not her mother. There are a lot of things that this character is saying throughout the movie that just feel like judgments and assumptions that we've heard of that quote unquote, over protective, overbearing, vain mother figure that felt a little icky to me watching as I did want to know before I dive into the actual subject of the movie, because I I do want to and I've appreciated looking at who is making these movies, who is telling these stories, who has some of the control over of our what is featured in these stories. And I learned that tangled was written by the screenplay was written by Dan Fogelman. And if you're not familiar with his name, Dan Fogelman is the the creator of the show. This is us. And he also wrote the screenplay for the movie Crazy, Stupid Love. But I have noticed I haven't watched Crazy Stupid Love in a while so it'd be interesting to rewatch but I have problems with the way women and mothers specifically have been represented on this as us and one of my main criticisms is that it's created by a man And so, so that was interesting to me. It's also a Mandy Moore connection if you're familiar with the show, because many more voices Rapunzel and she is the matriarch of this as us. So I thought that was kind of interesting. I also found interesting in researching Dan Fogelman, he wrote, I think it was one of his first movies, the guilt trip, which is a movie that I have not seen. But that has Seth Rogen and Barbra Streisand in it. And it is moot. It's called the guilt trip. Let's
Jackie Leonard 25:33
just start there. And it's based on real life experience between him and his mom going on a road trip. And that movie came out in 2012. And so I don't want to psychoanalyze this guy. But I just, I just wanted to give some context and throw that out there. He seems to have a good relationship with his mom. But there might be some little little things that maybe he has a chip on his shoulder about or as little likes to, to kind of make fun of about his mom that I wonder how that plays into some of his, his other characters that he's created. So I thought that was interesting. I don't know if you do as well. But I wanted to point that out. Something that I noticed from the star in the actual movie Tangled was early on, there's a scene where the queen who is Rapunzel, his mom, is shown to get sick and she gets sick during childbirth, and this will come up later in the season. But I do, I am extra sensitive. And like my radar gets pinged anytime I see birth represented on TV or in film, because so much of it is represented as traumatic. And not to say that doesn't happen, but I just see it more often than not, and I was surprised and tangled, that they actually showed a mother giving birth. I couldn't remember a scene and an animated movie for Disney that had had that before. So I thought that was interesting. But of course we get that. But she's also very ill and could die. And this golden flower saves her and heals her. And that's how Rapunzel gets her special powers. And if you haven't seen the film, Rapunzel was kidnapped by this old witchy kind of woman who wants to use Rapunzel as powers to keep her youthful and attractive. And so this is mother Gospel who raises Rapunzel as her own and keeps her trapped in this tall tower like the classic Rapunzel story. Some of the I just like kept writing down dialogue as I was watching this movie because there were so many lines that mother gospel was saying that were just like, oh my god, really making me want to psychoanalyze Dan Fogelman like what's the issue you have?
Jackie Leonard 27:50
Like I said the the mother figure she was very vain. into her looks. She saw Rapunzel as like, you know, serving her needs. And Rapunzel represented this fountain of youth for her. So many times she makes comments about Rapunzel like negatively like putting her down. She puts down her looks at one point she calls her she says you're getting kind of chubby in the mother knows best song she says it's a crazy world out there. I tried to like scare her into not wanting to leave. So a lot of like anxious thinking being planted into Rapunzel. She says on your own you won't survive very like abusive and trap man kind of language. She says so many times after she says something kind of mean or you know abusive or, you know, fear tactic. She'll then turn around and say, I'm just saying, because I love you. I'm just telling you this because I love you. I'm just keeping you safe or protecting you because I love you. And they have this exchange that's like sweet out of context where the mother says, I love you. And Rapunzel says I love you more. And the mother says I love you most or something like that. And like I said out of context. Very sweet, right? But the why was that put in there so much. It was really interesting to me why they put that in there and then didn't really give mother gospel, anything redemptive at the end. And then at one point when Rapunzel later in the movie, tries to push back and ask for you know, some freedom mother brothel says, Oh, great. Now I'm the bad guy. And that totally like took me back to my own childhood at times when my mom would make comments about how like, the mom is always the bad guy. And so that really rang true. Like that was something that was resonant of a typical mom or at least in my experience, but it was voiced through this evil character and so, so that you know, kind of was interesting to me. I will say I enjoyed the movie. I thought it was really cute and I you know got sucked in. So a lot of times my, my critiques are in addition to it me enjoying something for face value but, but I was a little disappointed that you know, the way that Rapunzel was able to escape this abusive situation is through a man, a man comes in, saves her. And, you know, she puts all her trust into him because she really has no choice. But But I again feel like this is a missed opportunity, we could have talked about maybe potentially problematic and harmful mother figures and done something a little bit more subversive progressive, for Rapunzel to get out of her situation that didn't involve a man who would later become a love interest. At one point toward the end, I actually thought he was gonna die. And I was like, Oh, God, what did I just watch. And then I was like, Ooh, maybe he does die. But you know, he doesn't. And they make a point at the end to mention that they get married and live happily ever after. Which, you know, I'm not against that. But like I said, with the, you know, a movie more contemporary, I was hoping holding out for something a little different. And it didn't, it didn't quite land. A lot of you also have have mentioned the movie and conto and wanted to you know, highlight that film as a movie to look at with this deep dive. And I have seen it once I wish I had the opportunity to watch it more closely. I watched it with my son when I did watch it. But I did some reading about it just to refresh my memory and get some, you know, lines in the in the plot clear. And from what I gathered like the core of the film is really the relationship between me Mirabell and Alma, her grandmother Mirabell is 15 years old from what I read. And you know, not gifted quote, unquote, like everybody else in our family. Obviously, the movie touches on things like generational trauma, and kind of gets into the family systems within this expanded family. And I did appreciate and liked how nuanced this family was, how many members were represented and characterized in this movie. And I love I mean, I really enjoyed the movie. Like I said, it was beautiful and fun. And I liked like I said, the nuance of the characters, how we have, you know, the character that's attractive and beloved, and she has these desires that go against what everybody expects of her and the strong sister who just wants to take a break. I thought all those things were really interesting. I liked that they brought up kind of the outcast and the secrets within a family. I thought all of that was really ripe. And, and and, you know, timely to bring up in an animated children's story that adults also they know partake in and enjoy. Alma who is the grandmother was widowed and left with triplets. And I think, you know, when we talk about generational trauma, like oh my gosh, like imagine the toll and grief and panic of that alone, compounded by the fact that they had to flee their country and start over new with nothing.
Jackie Leonard 33:03
I thought all of those, you know, details the backstory into the opening of the film are just like, so intense and left me wondering what was going to happen. I was a little disappointed. I mean, I love magical realism. So you know, that's something I really enjoy. But I don't know, I like you. Only until the very end of the movie do they kind of spell out that Alma was the one who provided for her family who protected her family. It's really kind of lost in the magic that they somehow gets. And I correct me if I'm wrong I'm so sorry. But from what I remember in the movie, The they get the the magical qualities through the father passing away, almost husband dying, there's like something that comes the magic comes from him dying. So it's almost assumed or presumed that like his spirit gives them this special power. I could be wrong. But basically, Alma herself doesn't work hard or, you know, without the magic, find a way to connect with this new community that they join to provide for her children. We don't see like the hard work she really puts in, it's just implied because of her role as the matriarch to this family. And her kind of watching over everybody. I saw I felt a tad let down by that but it wasn't like a big issue. But that was something worth noting. I mean, I Belle's mom is kind of a lower tiered character. She doesn't play a prominent role. Her father doesn't really either. Like I said this is mostly a story between her and her grandmother. And her grandmother is really hostile towards me Annabelle. She doesn't have a quote unquote gift and, and her grandma feels it seems threatened by this. And she really takes out a lot of her you know her a lot of her trauma and a lot of her Fears on on her. And at the end, it's made by Bella who who credits Alma, her grandmother for protecting her family, their family all these years, and kind of gives all my way an out for being so horrible. And she does this because she is able to see everything that Alma had gone through. But I don't know, I wonder if that was another missed opportunity. Like, could they have given Alma a little bit more space to atone or earn this beyond what she had been through in the past? No meat, Val is like extending an olive branch. And she's the one who really is the glue to the family. That is her gift that's identified. But I don't know. I like that there's a mother figure in this story that is flawed, and imperfect, but also not the like, big villain of the movie, but I did feel like she was pretty cruel and had some moments that just were not endearing. And I wondered if there was more opportunity to have her really make amends in a way that would really reflect what generational like healing could be. Versus just that the youth is responsible or needs to kind of let go of, of the bad things that the previous generations have done to make make way for this like piece. And if that is if I'm missing some major points in the movie, like forgive me, I only watched it once. But that was my general kind of breakdown of what I thought. The other movie that I looked at and read into a little bit more deeply. But that again, I'm not as familiar with is brave. I'll get into who created those that movie later. But what I did, I liked about it was I forgot I've seen it before, but I forgot that it's really is like a mother daughter style movie. But what I had remembered was the mother is largely an obstacle, she gets in her daughter's way and wants her daughter to do things that are against what the daughter wants to do. And they they butt heads and have a lot of tension. And then her mother becomes a bear. And her daughter needs to you know, help her mother not be a bear anymore. The daughter is Merida, I don't know if I'm saying that right. And Eleanor, Queen Eleanor is her mother. And as I'm looking at this, I just realized it is technically a Disney Pixar movie. So or at least produced by Pixar. So maybe this doesn't go into the category that I thought it did. But essentially, it is a mother daughter movie,
Jackie Leonard 37:42
I think where I have some hangups, like I already mentioned, is the mother is really an obstacle, and the mother is the one that needs to like, overcome her issues to accept her daughter. And I still think that's like a little problematic, or maybe not a little just problematic, because we again, are representing motherhood as this thing that gets in our way, and gets in the way of the hero. And the mother is not somebody who is really helpful as a mother is actually someone who needs to, like, do her own growing so that our kids can succeed. And maybe there is some truth to that. But it would be nice to show like a mom who's a little flawed, or just a little you know, struggling in their own way. But that is not so resistant. And like, you know, basically wanting their kid to do something that that the kid just that's actually like, bad for the kid. And, and backing down later on because the kid wears them down after like a crazy journey. You know, I wish it wasn't didn't have to be that way. If we're going to get a mom in a movie, but progress, you'll note that the movies that I have mentioned, the three movies in condo, brave, Tangled, all our movies that have been, you know, made. I can't remember when tangled, I think it was 2012 in the last 10 to 15 years. So we're moving in the right direction, it seems at least by including and incorporating mothers in some way into movies that are you know, the classic Disney Feature films. But are they taking a positive influential role yet? I'm not really sure I can say that. So whether its intended or not the consequence or result of all of these films being made and having mothers represented or not represented in such a way is that moms are not the heroes. That's what we're told. Through these Disney movies. Moms aren't even considered a guide if you follow like the hero's journey, right? They're not somebody who's helping our heroes get to where they need to go. instead. They're often either the villain or they're like something that that Heroes needs to overcome to get where they need to be. They're the catalyst, they're the test or the barrier to the child's desires. I mean, gosh, like, how awful that we're like messaging this to our children through these movies.
Jackie Leonard 40:15
So the mother is only really useful or influential conceptually, like in the examples that I gave you where the mother dies, so it made them, you know, feel inspired to take on their dreams, or they died. So they had to grow up a lot faster than they would have otherwise, but not in the present, not in their presence or an actuality is the mother a prominent figure to really influence positive change, or growth for for our main characters, the heroes in these Disney movies. And that's a bummer. That's that's, you know, something that doesn't speak well to the impact that Disney has had on us growing up and expecting to become mothers later in our lives. And for us now watching again, as moms how do we feel watching these Disney movies seeing the way moms just really aren't important? But like I said, things seem to be progressing. And there are some glimmers and some of the things that I noted in my research was that there have been some directors and writers that have featured in some of the movies I've mentioned that I wanted to share with you. One of those is Brenda Chapman. And Brenda Chapman was the director and writer for the movie Brave. She was hired back in 1987, to work on the Little Mermaid and she was told by somebody in the studio that she only got the job because she was a woman. And because of the success of The Little Mermaid she later became the head of the story department on the Lion King movie. Something cool about the Little Mermaid is that Brenda drew the wave that is like iconic that you know that scene where Ariel is standing on the rock and she's and then the wave hits her. That's Brenda Chapman. So I thought that was really cool. I didn't know that. And, you know, something she said is that if the story of the little mermaid was written, as it had classically been written by quote unquote, nine old men, Ariel would not have been the character that she was, she would have been a very different character. So I thought that was really interesting because the Little Mermaid became one of the top grossing films of 1989. And it was, notably be Isay largely in part because they made an effort in hiring more women to take on the the production of this movie. And like I said earlier, the Little Mermaid started what they call the Disney Renaissance brought in a lot of money for Disney. And she later went on to become co director for the movie Brave and the writer, the head writer for the movie. Another noteworthy person is Linda Woolverton, who was hired next to have a role in making the Beauty and the Beast. The studio felt that as a woman, I couldn't write a sexist character. That's something that Linda said and I thought that was interesting. So she wrote the Beauty and the Beast screenplay, and was also listed writer on the movie The Lion King. Beating the beast is another movie that I really loved. I especially loved that Belle was a character who loved books, and she really did stand up for herself even though you know the movie does have that classic happily ever after ends up with a you know, the leading man kind of storyline, I did feel like Belle was a really complex and interesting character. The last person I want to highlight is Jennifer Lee and Jennifer Lee wrote frozen one into she's the soloist writer, I don't know if there were like a team of writers that worked under her but she was a prominent writer for frozen one and two. And she also co directed both movies. And she's now the Chief Creative Officer of Disney Animations. And she got her start with Disney by being invited by former classmate from her time at Columbia to help him write WreckIt Ralph, which came out back in 2011. And I thought that was really really interesting that, you know, frozen to was highlighted as a movie that gave a mom a more influential role and so many people, so many moms, I know have really loved the frozen series. And it was heavily, you know, led by a woman. So that's that's it. That's, you know, that's good to know. Oh, sorry. I thought this was really interesting to to go back to Linda Woolverton. She also said that in writing, the Beauty and the Beast quote, every single line of Belle's dialogue was a battle. And so, in critiquing a lot of these things, I
Jackie Leonard 44:58
think this stuff is so important Because even when we see, you know, the main listed writer is a woman, it doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of resistance. And there aren't a lot of hands and people who are controlling the way these stories are told, that we don't see or hear about, but that are definitely not the, you know, the the moms, they're probably very
Jackie Leonard 44:58
think this stuff is so important Because even when we see, you know, the main listed writer is a woman, it doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of resistance. And there aren't a lot of hands and people who are controlling the way these stories are told, that we don't see or hear about, but that are definitely not the, you know, the the moms, they're probably very big studio heads traditional, like whites, rich, older men. And and that makes a difference, right. So it's worth noting. So to end this episode, I've gone on a lot longer than I expected. But like I said, I went down the rabbit hole. And this episode specifically is on kind of a larger encompassing focus, and so it was hard to pare down. But I do want to end with a quick little game for you all since I don't have a guest. I'm going to read a quote from, I think four or five different movies. And you're going to have to think about whether or not it was a mom or a dad who spoke this quote. So for number one, the quote is, it's marriage. It's not the end of the world. Was that a mom? Or a dad in a Disney film? The answer? It was a mom. This is from Queen Eleanor in the movie Brave. Number two. You must choose your own path. Mom or Dad? The answer? That was chief power, pow Hatton from the movie Pocahontas. That was a dad. Number three. The greatest gift and honor is having you for a daughter. Mom or Dad? The answer? This dad, those fosu From Milan. Number four. Sometimes who we wish we were what we wish we could do? It's just not meant to be mom or dad? The answer? That was Sina from the movie milaana. And number five, you are the one you've been waiting for all of your life. That was a mom that was Queen Iduna from frozen to So after all of this after all this talking about Disney animated feature films. Before I share this week's writing prompt, I do have to give Disney animated feature films a rating and options that I have our is it successful of being a mom advocate guilty pleasure or a mom guilt. And I wondered if I was going to change my mind. But I think I'm still going to stamp these Disney films with the mom guilt stamp. I do think Disney has made some progress and seems to be more intentional and the stories they're telling and researching, you know, the different cultures they're sharing stories about and all of that. But I would say based on what I've observed and looked more closely into the mother character still needs a lot of work. And I would say some of the impact Disney has had in in our perceptions of moms has been more negative than positive so it's getting the mom guilt stamp doesn't mean that we can enjoy it but I would say you know, be wary of looking to Disney for some positivity around motherhood. So this week's writing prompt is a two part writing prompt. And the first part of the prompt I would want you to either rewatch or think back to your favorite Disney movie from childhood and settle on one. And then what I want you to do for the second part is to rewrite the story with a more prominent or a supportive mom figure.