Releasing Your Ideals of Motherhood with Kaela Kajiyama
ABOUT THE EPISODE
Fellow mother, Pediatric Sleep Specialist and friend, Kaela Kajiyma is joining me on The Motherscope Podcast today. We’re not talking kiddos and sleep, but we are talking about the biggest hurdle that Kaela has overcome as a mother. You’ll hear the importance of letting go of expectations, why we have to know what we want, and how to taper the insecurities we may feel as mothers. If you’re struggling to mold your own version of motherhood that works for you and your family, then this episode is for you.
TOPICS DISCUSSED
The biggest hurdle Kaela has overcome as a mother
Why it’s okay to release your ideal of motherhood
The importance of speaking up and advocating for your children
Overcoming the impulse to project our own insecurities onto our kids
Knowing what it is that we actually want, instead of what’s being told to us
The things that helped Kaela really evolve as a mom when she let go of her expectations
Kaela’s solicited advice for moms - you always have a fresh start
RESOURCES MENTIONED
THIS WEEK’S WRITING PROMPT
Practice rage writing, don’t censor yourself, put everything down on the page that you’re feeling and answer “What don’t you like about motherhood?”
ABOUT KAELA
KAELA KAJIYAMA is a Pediatric Sleep Specialist who helps families create sustainable sleep habits for their little ones. She works with families by providing customized plans and support to help their child and, in turn, the entire family-sleep and feel better.
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Jackie Leonard 00:04
Hi, Kayla, welcome to the podcast. Hi, Jackie, thank you so much for having me.
Kaela Kajiyama 00:10
So before we get into your story, can you introduce yourself to those listening? Sure, my name is Kayla. I am a mother of three children teenager down to a seven year old. I'm a pediatric sleep specialist. And we live with our adopted puppy in Kailua, Hawaii.
Jackie Leonard 00:30
I was hoping you'd bring up the sleep component, I'll probably mention this in our my intro for you. But I am such a fan of people who work with parents on asleep. And I've had the honor and fortune of working with you to help with our second child. And I just can't say enough about how helpful I call sleep consultants, angels, because you really just help. An area of parenting that often comes out of surprise to most parents. And so I feel like I have some questions for you at the end. But I'm just so grateful to know you. And I've had the opportunity to work for you work with you on our daughter's sleep. And I know that has not as much to do with what we're talking about today. But I just really had to say it because it's one of the reasons I just feel so grateful to have you on today. So, to our topic today, the question that you picked was about the biggest hurdle you've overcome. And I would love for you to share that story.
Kaela Kajiyama 01:46
Sounds good? Well, first, it's an honor to work with your family. And I'm so happy to have met you, I think a few years ago now actually through a business group. And it's just been really cool to be in your circle. And I'm really grateful for that. So yeah, the biggest hurdle I've had to overcome as a mother would definitely be releasing the ideals that I had of motherhood for myself, and realizing that they weren't actually things that were mine. They weren't things that deep down, I actually wanted and I believe strongly. That's why motherhood for the first I've been a mom for almost 14 years now. And I would say the first 10 years or so were really hard for me like, very, very hard. And I thought there was something wrong. And this was before people talked about it a lot more to. And really what I learned over time was that, you know, these, these really weren't my ideals to begin with. And that's why things were not clicking. I became a mom to my oldest, very young and around me at that time were you know, I wasn't married at the time. So when I was going to I was in nursing school at the time, and I worked. And so when I was going to school and dropping off my child at daycare daily there, you know, parents around me were married with, you know, making this up three SUVs and boats on the weekend, you know, the area we lived in was very, very water heavy and granite. We had a great life like I look back and it's totally fine. Like it was I would go back to those times in a heartbeat to relive and redo. But I constantly was not content because I was always like, well, oh no, you know, I don't have my kid and like three sign language classes a week and swim lessons, even though I've already taught him to swim and he can swim. But this is what everyone's doing. So I would overextend myself I would overwork to afford to be able to put my child in specific activities. To be sure they had a certain mat for napping on I'll never forget when my son was two and a half. He napped very well at daycare. He did not sleep well. But that's another story. He napped very well at that his daycare that I loved. And that was a little Montessori daycare and they tell you to bring a towel right to lay your child on. Hopefully Don't cry. And I will never forget. I would bring a towel because that's what he laid on there. And again, he took these great two and a half hour nap. So I never said anything. And one day at the end of the week, you bring the towel home to fold so or to wash. So he's rolling up his towel. He's like two, two and a half. I think at the time I could be wrong. He could have been younger. He rolls up his towel and we're walking over to the bike because I rode bikes because we lived really close and it's we live twice. It's beautiful. And we go get on bite. And this dad goes, you know, I noticed that he's always laying on a towel. And I said, Yeah, that's where he naps. He goes well, I noticed that his head tilts a certain way when he lays on his towel because I picked my son up during nap time. And I said, okay, like Yeah, that's just how he lays when he sleeps. My junior here not knowing that I actually know quite a bit about sleep. And so then he says, this dad says to me, you know, it would really benefit him if like if you notice there's like six other kids that have orthopedic roll up mats. And it's really a far better choice. And at the time, this is 2009. So there was not really like, there wasn't Instagram, there wasn't like, you know, the sliding of it. No one had smartphones, especially where I lived, like, there was very little a thing like, so he tell you write down this piece of paper, and I go home and look it up. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, this mat was like $200 $250. And it wasn't a matter of money, because I worked had money. But it was this obsession I became because I was like, Oh, my gosh, my kid, my child is not sleeping well at daycare and his, you know, my poor child, he's sleeping on a mat on the carpet. He's not on this TempurPedic roll up whatever it was, I Jackie, I obsessed so long on this mat. And I finally by the stupid mat, and my kid, I bring it to daycare. And I'll never forget the date, the woman who ran this, the back of the state here kind of just stared at me one day, like, oh, like, you know, you bought into this crap, like, almost just as look. Well, my kid was literally never slept on the thing, he preferred his towel, she asked me to bring back a towel. I think I donated that thing in the end, like some cat shelter or something ridiculous. And the reason I'm sharing this is because in my in that very moment, I was so impressionable. And I really, really looked around me the way everyone else was doing things. And I thought that parenting meant that I was a really crappy parent, bringing my kid to school, to daycare or whatever, to lay on the towel, it was so silly it was so I mean, you have children, you know, if they are sleeping somewhere, and it's a hardwood floor, who cares, they're happily sleeping, they won't sleep like that, if they're not comfortable, they're not going to continue to do it. Like they're not, you know, the, they're humans. So, you know, and that's just one small example it carried into, you know, being around my children and their cousins and my eventual husband, their their dad and being around his family members in my own family members and peers and just constantly feeling I could not like I could not keep up constantly feeling like, you know, everything from like I said before swim lessons, even though my child could swim totally fine to having another child. And then there were like Mommy and Me sibling classes and thinking I needed to go into that. And we went to one at the local, my gym, I think it's called, it's still here, which is really funny. And I went to it, because I thought like, that's what the issue is right now with my son is having some fits. And so we need to be in these, again, like dropping a lot of money to these Mommy and Me classes that really didn't work for my schedule, and my kids got kicked out. They told us we weren't a good fit, because he was like, running around. And it just, it was constantly something else where I was like, okay, so I got married, and I really probably should not have gotten married and all, you know, if I was being true to myself, but children have married parents, right? Then it's these classes, and then it's these things, and then it's, you know, down to like I, everyone around me, I the culture that we live in where I live, and where my children been raised is very high in academics. And my children are part Asian American, and in the family. It's very, very, very, in their particular family, like, can your child by their name at like four years old? Can they do this? Are they counting and so even then I would fall into these, oh, my goodness, my child's not doing this, I need to be doing this, it always felt like I was not doing enough. Always we go to my mother in law at the Times pool, my kids would be swimming and their cousins would be there, you know, practicing backstroke, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, we're just playing in the pool. We would go out on adventures to the zoo, and I'd packed lunches and we'd go to the beach. And even then it was like, Oh, wow, did I not have the right hat on them? Because we met up with people who were doing this or doing that. And it constantly just felt like not enough. Not enough. Not enough. I need to be you know, my own mother. She means well, and we've had this conversation. So it's fine for me to put it out here. But you know, at one point, she said to me, you work and you do these things. So you're never with your kids. And I thought, well, I am with my kids, but I have to work like I don't know what that is. So then for a while I didn't work actually. And then my marriage fell apart. And I my mom, my mom came to me and said, Well, you need to be working because you know, obviously it's what you need to be doing. So I was working two jobs. When my marriage ended. I had three children by then they were eight, five and barely two. She my youngest. That was a very hard time. And I was just exhausted this feeling of needing to overcome these ideals that I had set for myself kind of to this breaking point. It was about five years ago. Like they just snapped one day I was at work. I was working with mothers to substance abuse of very intense job in this very, like interesting area of California at the time we moved by them. And I was going through a very hard custody situation with my ex husband, which is a whole other podcast and I was at work at 11pm and my toddler was still breastfeeding, but because of the custody situation she was to be with him so it's all Are you very hard and you know, as a mom who's probably likely nurse, toddlers and anyone else listening, your body just doesn't magically not have melted. So I remember being at work one night at like 11pm Doing a Detox intake and my body was so sore, I was so stressed out, my, my breasts restored, everything was just like, and I started crying. And this coworker colleague of mine was just this, like, 24 year old man, like he had no idea, you know, no kids know anything. And he's just like, it sounds like you just need to like, figure out what you don't like anymore. And I was like, You're right. And so I journaled, that night, when I got home from work, like at 2am, I could not sleep, and then something just snapped. And it wasn't instantly it was definitely not, I will not say it was a magical last five years. But something snapped to where I was like, Oh, my gosh, all these little things from the nap mat to how I fed my children to, you know, even going back to like breastfeeding. For me looking back, like it was very, not an enjoyable experience for me. And I'm not having a plan to have more children. But looking back, I've probably if I had listened to myself would have stopped and immensely a lot better for that at certain points. Looking back, if I had handled just various things differently, I think I would have been better, but I can't go back. So moving forward, I just really started to grow in and speak up for the first time ever on how I actually felt when I would drive down to where my parents were living in visit for the weekend, I would speak up actually on how things were going with the kids and how I actually wasn't okay with someone telling them to finish all the food on their plate. And actually, I wanted them to not develop eating disorders that I've had I really, and it made a lot of people very uncomfortable. And so in overcoming this, these ideals that I had set for myself as a mother and releasing a lot of these expectations. I just, I just grew and it was really painful. It was not easy. I wish I could say it was as easy as like reading inspirational quotes being like, cool. I'm doing it my way now. And it was not, it was very hard, and even sharing my children with their father and they spent time with him we have very different like polar opposites. That's a whole other hurdle in itself. But just really growing into learning to manage the fact that my ideals and my expectations for how motherhood should be, should look how my kids should be. And really allowing my children if I think I've done a decent job in speaking up for what they believe or they want because they're doing that now. And I have to catch myself in oh my gosh, they're actually doing what I've taught them to do. And so I need to further release. You know, I gave you a quick example earlier of my son is a really good swimmer. He's very good in the water. He's very avid in the water. He's a teenager, he is good at it. And I thought he enjoyed it. And so we moved home back to Hawaii from California. And I was like, Cool. He'd be on the swim team I was on whatever years ago and he tries out for the swim team. And he makes a swim team and he's on the swim team right now. And he hates it. He hates it. He doesn't. It's funny. He loves swimming, he'll swim miles in the ocean. He loves it. And he likes the social aspect. But he tells me, I hate it. I don't want to do it. And I'm like, No, I need to keep him doing it. And then I'm like, Wait, why though? You know, like, we want to definitely initiate responsibility. But today or last night, actually, it was last night and early this morning. I was like, You know what, I think today, I'm just gonna tell him, Okay, we need to give 30 days notice, you know, I pay monthly, but maybe you just don't do that right now. And maybe I just released this expectation. And maybe I released the voices in my head of my parents and my grandparents and their grandparents and other people always saying, you know, they need to stick this out. Every kid needs to be doing something they're doing. Every parent needs to do XYZ and really hone into like, actually what's working for my family because it's working for my family and connecting, or the limited time we have together I feel because we do they do go to their dad's house several times a week is the other night we went down to the beach. And I'm a very regimented Giacchino person, like around like, dinnertime and bedtime and ending the day and it was really nice little block from the beach. And I was like, You know what, why don't we go down to the beach and all through their faces lit up, and everyone's on their bikes and grab their boards. And it was like 5pm, and we went down until dark. And we had so much fun. And while I think sports and other things are really great. I'm not against them. We do a lot of that we do things. I realized that moment, like the connection that we had, and its connection constantly trying to cultivate was actually just meeting their needs. Like they were super stoked to go to the beach for an hour, something out of ordinary and then come home and eat dinner, and be up a little, you know, we're even up late. That's the thing. We're still embedded in normal time. But I've just learned to like, wow, we can actually connect and do things. If I just stop and meet their needs. And it's not when everyone around me is doing their cousins, everyone else. They're scheduled activities 24/7 But I've created this life as a business owner where I say I want freedom. And then I'm tied to all these activities that half the time my kids don't even want to do. And I paid for them and dragging them to them. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, this feels like crap. Like if I wake up anxious today about this practice or whatever they must be because they don't even want to go and so just Yeah, just constant daily, I wake up and I'm like, Okay, well, I have boundaries and structure as a mother, you know, what can I do today? That's me, because when I'm happy and feel supported and supporting myself, I can support my children better. I can support them as individuals and grow on this motherhood journey with how we want it. Because otherwise, I think I'm going to raise kids that are going to turn 1819 20 And to be miserable adults who don't even know what they actually want, and question everything and I don't want that. So I think there's one thing to say we're going to break cycles. I've learned because it's very easy to say that and another thing to actively be in the work of doing it because in the work of doing it, I have learned is really painful and really work. But but then the little wins, like, like the other day, like I told the girlfriend, all three of them did not fight. Okay, well, when we lost the beach that was probably on YouTube somewhere. So I'm probably settled abroad my boys had, but we were going down. And I suggested it for all three of them to literally at once be like yes, and running rather things like those are the little wins. And so I feel like now I'm coming into slowly over the last five years, like how I actually see motherhood, as and that's really withheld a whole lot of expectations, because I yeah, they're all humans, they're individuals. And so I kind of had to let them evolve the journey, and maybe my person that I am while respecting myself and my children, but really, they lead along this journey. And that has been something really hard for me to like control.
Jackie Leonard 16:28
Oh, man, I just so much of what you said was just you but I think you said in the beginning, like, I hope I don't start crying. And I feel like I like my eyes welled up at least three times hearing you talk just because so much of what you're saying just, I had a visceral reaction to I related to so much of it. And you speaking to this idea of not enoughness especially really hit me. Because and this is me taking what you said and applying it to myself, there have been so many moments as a mom, especially with my son who is very strong willed, and, and has such a, like confidence in himself. But I've seen how up against the world, there's resistance from others to embrace that or like, you know, people trying to kind of suppress that, me wanting to help him fit in. And worrying that he's not enough as an extension of myself knowing that that is my own kind of concern. Like I always have often felt like I wasn't enough. And then I've noticed that myself sometimes with my own kid applying that to him. So you talking about like going to these mom and me classes, I was like, Yep, that was me. And then he might not, you know, he was at times the only kid who didn't sit down in the circle. And when I think back to it, I'm like, he was a year and a half or two years old, like why did I expect that of him? But, you know, like, seeing other kids do it and being like, what am I doing wrong, that my kid doesn't do this, and and continuing to put myself in situations where I felt worse, not better for it. And like you said, we're like paying for this? Why are we doing this? And I realized at one point, like you were saying that I am I'm like trying to, I don't know how to put it into words, but basically that I'm like, I'm feeling like I'm not enough. So I'm trying to fill that void. And I'm doing that to my kid with my kid as well. I'm trying to make him fit into this situation. So that, you know, he is not without I don't want him to be without things that these other kids have. And that the moment that you stop and ask yourself, Is this something that I even believe is important? Is this even a value of my family that I've created? I feel like the second that you stop and ask yourself that it really just frees you. And I heard that in your story and just wanted to? I don't know, thank you for for talking about it. Because I don't think that that enough people talk about, like you said that the work and the difficulty that goes into this like quote unquote, cycle breaking. It can be very isolating, it can be very hard. And there's a lot of resistance to it at times. When you actually commit to it, you know, like, I'm not going to, like you said make my kid eat everything off the plate. And there's going to be resistance to that and how am I going to, you know, stand firm and advocate if everyone around me isn't on board. Yeah,
Kaela Kajiyama 19:51
yeah, yeah, I yeah, I resonate so much that you mentioned with your son too, because I mean, again, we could probably talk for hours on this because like The actual daily journey for my parenting is also very, I have a child similar and I you know, one day I won't talk too long on this, but I promise but one time my teenager was really into this phase. It was actually during like the shutdowns, the COVID pandemic, because I was like, Cool. It's a hobby, but he's really into military things. And so he was like making this ghillie suit, which I don't even know what it was. Google if you don't know what it is essentially, like this camouflage suit thing. obsessively Jackie like he was like, what? 1112 years old at the time. 12 years old, I think and like any Amazon gift card got for a gift or anything. He is like, can you please go online order this stuff. He wore it to the baseball field wore it everywhere as like a 12 year old and was like, so stoked on this like outfit he made and I was like, Oh my god. Why? Why? And then again, thankfully, it's now and not before. I'm like, Whoa. Like you said what? It was even like my like, what do I actually like, I actually want these individual humans and then I'm like, comfortable with my own things. And so is this constant, just like you said, putting yourself into situations that? Where do you feel good and where it doesn't mean we can't grow? Because I'm I I'm not sure with your son by now you mentioned that he has a little more assertive now and stronger willed. And in my experience with my child, I have to I have one that's extremely strong willed and assertive. I'm not like that. So when she is like talking to every single person at the beach and getting food from that, like, she would probably go to the stranger in the van like and I am just mortified. Oh my gosh, didn't ask to talk to you. Like, they must be so annoyed. And then I'm like, Oh, my gosh, no, like, No, we have to pause. So yeah, we could talk forever on this. I think it's great that you are also in that, that spot and you're not alone, I promise. And I promise to because I work with families. And I just will say this. And I work in asleep. So people think that in the sleep world that there's that I'm setting ideals for families, and I don't actually do that. And I actually work with families, for their own ideals and what works for them. And I can't really I don't have any good. I haven't had permission to share certain stories that that would be very relatable to people. So I can't share those. But I will say that, like, constantly, I talk to parents daily. And the biggest thing we dive into doesn't even have to do asleep is what actually do you want, like, what actually works for you? And you want it like what isn't your mother in law? What isn't the daycare telling you? What isn't the neighbor or the mom blogs, the Facebook groups or the Instagram stories that you've see what actually feels good to you, that works for you. And typically, it's a 180 from what they actually called me about. So I think it's just important that we all dive into that. And again, it's so much easier said than done. I will not fake ever that it's like this magical line.
Jackie Leonard 22:42
Yeah, well, and it's even that question, right? Like, even though what do you want? And what do you want without all of those other voices is really hard? Like sometimes. I mean, this is a completely off topic. Subject, but I think it applies really well as like, sometimes I'm we just moved into a house. So I'm trying to think of like, What things do I want for the house? And I'm keep having to ask myself, like, what do I actually like versus what am I used to seeing so much that I think is like looks good, you know, because we're so inundated with pictures of nice spaces and trying to really flush out what my preference is, versus everything that's been I've been exposed to, is really hard. And it really requires like, a level of, of just disconnecting or processing. That, again, doesn't have to do directly with parenting. But I think it's the same way where it's like, what is a message that I've received as a child? What's something that I, I've seen a lot of other parents like me and my age doing that I think I should do? What am I trying to apply to my kid who what that won't fit their personality? No matter how hard I try? Like, what are all these different things that I'm trying to do that, that aren't me and are my child and then get to the root of what actually is right for me and them is really hard. And I don't know that I have like an actual answer to how you get there. But I think that it starts with even just asking that question, which on the day to day if you can kind of stop and ask yourself, that is a good pet least first step, right.
Kaela Kajiyama 24:28
Yeah, I agree. I don't I don't have an exact you know, and I go to a lot of therapy and I pay for a lot of therapy. And even then it's just this constant of like, well, what do you want? You know, like you mentioned, like, stop looking at the design catalogs and actually let your brain pull out what it wants because I have kept my house empty. I just moved to because I'm like wait, is it just what I see or is it actually something I want? So there's like nothing in our living room because I actually bought a green couch while their story. But yeah, I think it's just just being brave enough to ask yourself What do I want and being okay that it's uncomfortable. Because I think deeply what I would want, before used to, I would almost push it away in my head like I journal even. And I would narrate how I actually ended up journaling, like, I would want to put pen to paper and you're a writer, so I'm not sure if this is like a thing. But I would like go down with a paper with my brain would want to say something. And then I would rewire it. And I would literally write something completely different. And it was not actually what I was even feeling it sounds psychotic, but it was like, Wait, so it's just I think, yeah, asking yourself what actually do I want what feels good. But there's a difference. Of course, like, sometimes things are uncomfortable, but we're okay, like moving. And then there's that visceral reaction of like, No, this really doesn't feel good.
Jackie Leonard 25:44
Yeah. Right. And like, he's, I think you said earlier about this idea that just because we're speaking to, like, you know, attending to our kids needs and doing things we want, it doesn't mean that you don't push yourself outside your comfort zone. And because there's so much to be said about building that muscle. But it's really about kind of working from a place of like, what are your values? What are working from a place of what are the things that I believe and I think are best, and lead. And it's, I keep thinking of like business, you know, when you start a business, they always talk about, like, What's your why and what's like, the heart behind why you started this business and lead from there. And that's when you make the best decisions for it. And, you know, parenting is in this has been the same kind of truth for me is that it's not so much about not putting ourselves in uncomfortable situations or situations that are hard. If we don't want to do them, it's more about making decisions from a place of what do I truly believe? And how can I, you know, you know, bring what I know into the situation, instead of forcing my kid to do this, because it's uncomfortable to say, like, we don't do that in our family or uncomfortable to, you know, deal with an extra judgment or feel the comments that we're going to get as a result. So that's kind of what I've learned. And that's what I heard a lot in your story, too.
Kaela Kajiyama 27:18
Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. You're not alone. I promise. I promise. There's more. It's yeah, it's just, it's hard. It's hard. And you know what to, it's interesting, because I think people above us and our generations, I think just didn't have the verbiage or the freedom or options to, to do different, I think, because sometimes I'll talk to people, not even my parents, but like, friends, parents who say, you know, I wish that I actually did something different. Or, and so it's interesting, because we're not like, you know, some radical thing. It's just, we're more luckily, thankfully, being able to be aware. And like you said, it's like, okay, what judgment might come from this, but standing in it and being okay with it or not, but just moving through it. It's yeah, it's work.
Jackie Leonard 28:02
Yeah, I was gonna ask you, because you talked about kind of the five year ago, Mark being a time when, obviously, there wasn't a magic wand, but things started to shift for you. And I'm curious if you could speak to because of how hard it is and how there's resistance? Or maybe not everybody is supportive of it. What did you find to be one or two of the things that really helped you? I guess, evolve or like, have it approach things differently during that season? And not, you know, go back to the old way, because it was too hard.
Kaela Kajiyama 28:41
Yeah, you know, it's an interesting answer, I'm sure. But what really happened for me was that I long story short, when I was going through this custody situation, I have been basically a stay at home mom for all these years, especially once I was married. And I did everything, like I said, I thought it was all right. Every idea like, you know, I breastfed my kids till they basically like over too long. So like, every, like, I gave all of myself to them. And in this moment, five years ago, I was actually being attacked for literally being a great parent. And it was very scary for me and it that's, I think, what snapped and so what helped me and the reason I bring that up is because I started to realize like, oh my gosh, from an outside perspective, it doesn't matter what we do, we will always receive something, some sort of criticism, I made my kids meals down to like the homemade applesauce. I spent hours like I was I would like grind up like liver and dehydrate it and put it into their food like nourish that. I mean, I'm talking every single tiniest thing, and yet, at ahead, no one gave a crap about any of these things and instead picked apart, the most random things like going to work at night, so that way I wasn't missing them during the day. And that was like an issue or something, you know. And that was where it helped to always carry in the back of my head, like no matter what I do, and it sounds so cliche, like someone's gonna have an opinion, like I could bring, I could drop off my kid right now kale salad for lunch at school or something, and someone will probably be like, Wow, they don't look at me, or let them enjoy the, you know, McDonald's or something like that. So I think that the first thing is remembering, like, you ultimately are responsible for yourself, we actually aren't responsible for our children's happiness, which is a whole other thing I had to learn, which is very hard to, but you're responsible for yourself. And so it doesn't matter that they're at school all day. And there's all these influences, it doesn't matter if they go to their other parents house, three days a week, and they get those influences there, you can control how you are. And so for me, it was again, just realizing one daily, like, daily when things were hard and like but this isn't, you remember how it was uncomfortable, then, like, you're actually going into comfort now. So whatever people have to say, they're going to have to say no matter what, anything that happens, someone's going to have something to say. So it's just going to happen. And to celebrating, like, looking for the good and not the bad thing. So something that helped me was a specific example I have is I have a middle child who is very, I don't want to label him, he you he can have very explosive situations fits whatever you want to call it. And after my divorce, I was actually with my parents for a few months. And that was very hard. And I'm very grateful for them. But he would have these explosive tantrums. And, you know, for us that were raised, like in the 80s, and 90s, the way those were handled were a lot different than we handle the bow. And I was it was not behavioral, it was very much neurological for him. So really just standing firm. And I know what's best for my kid, like I know what actually works, and and noticing when the good things happen. And so when I bring that up, because I would notice the next fit when I handle it the way I actually wanted to handle it, it resolved faster, there was a better recovery. And I was like, Okay, here's a win. So that when the next thing happened, instead of oh my gosh, yesterday, there was a two hour one like oh my gosh, I was like no, but you've got this because yesterday, you did make a breakthrough. So it could be the tiniest things, it could be you know, get your kids eat something because maybe all they want to eat is mac and cheese and give them a piece of broccoli. And you notice yesterday they eat the broccoli because you like make it a shape. I don't know, I think big broccoli and a shape. But just looking at the little wins through your process, I think is really helpful. So why and remember that no matter what you're doing, someone's gonna have an opinion. But in the end, again, it's so cliche, but like they're not taking care of your kid. They're not even if they are that's their way of doing it. They're not paying the bills, they're not your, your internal happiness, you're responsible for that. And to just celebrate the wins, you know, we can't go back and be like, Oh, it's because of my ex husband that my kid I never got to parent my kid the way I want to because actually, my time with my kid, I can choose how I want to parent and I had to really overcome that too. So someone's gonna say something no matter what celebrate the wins.
Jackie Leonard 33:11
Yeah, it's I mean, I've noticed that when I am struggling the most. As a parent, it's when I've not been able to really sit down and see, like you said, the winds were I'm like focusing all on the negatives when I'm really letting those things dominate my thoughts. It's like that you can't like you get into this like, I don't know if what do you call it like fight or flight response where you're just like, angry or upset very easily. And they're always there those wins? I think. I think you said something at the beginning about like the kids or children or are the ones leading the way and and you shared like the example of like when you said it was time to go, and everybody got up and left and there wasn't like, resistance there like a meltdown. That being a win. And and they happen. And I don't know, I guess I'm just saying like, I appreciate that standpoint. Because if we can just pause a lot of times, we can one ask ourselves, what what is it that we know? And also we can see the good. And like you said they're not it's hard things are hard. It doesn't mean that that things are perfect, but there is something there that you can latch on to that will help you see that what you're doing is that things are good that things are that you're doing something right or that your kids are fine, or that you're doing right by your family. But it takes a lot of stillness and pause and I think we don't always allow ourselves that time to see that.
Kaela Kajiyama 34:55
Yes, 100% and like I said, I have to remind myself daily of this out sometimes. So, yeah, it's a process.
Jackie Leonard 35:04
Yeah. Well, I really, I think this was such an important thing to bring up and talk about, and I appreciate you for, for sharing this hurdle that I think, for so many of us is just an ongoing hurdle as parents trying to align with our values, and what's important to us, and then in the face of everyone else who has opinions, like you said, everyone's gonna have something to say. I was thinking about this before we recorded the podcast how I think so much of, of mothering, we feel like we don't know enough, especially new moms were like, What do I have to offer? What do I have to say? And as soon as I've hit record and listen to people share, I am reminded of how much we know about our children and in turn ourselves that we don't always get the opportunity to acknowledge. And I think that I was, I was thinking about how my daughter never keeps her socks on. And recently, like, I've been out and about, and people make comments about, like, Oh, she's gonna be called Get socks? Or why isn't she wearing socks? Like they keep making comments about that. And if I let it all, I just instinctively pull out socks and put them on her because I feel like I don't want people to think that I'm like, hurting my child and that she's cold. And if I stopped, I'd be like, wait, I know, my daughter, the reason I'm having put them on right now is because first of all, we're going literally from one building to the next, she'll be fine. And secondly, if I put it on, she's going to take it off, and we're going to lose her socks, and not have them for when we actually need them. And that's a small example. But it's just one of those things where if you think about it, you actually know your kid, and you know their situation. And, and I guess I just I just don't think that we are encouraged enough to do that. And because we get so much criticism, it's easy to start just being reactive to what other people say. So anyways, this is a roundabout way of saying that. I think this is something that so many people will relate to. So thank you. And I can go on and on. But I would, I'm gonna start to taper our conversation. And now just segue to our final three requests that I have a view. The first is, if you could share a song that describes your mothering experience so far.
Kaela Kajiyama 37:42
Yeah, for me and my children, it's glorious by Macklemore. It came out probably about five years ago or so, um, not because the drawing is necessarily like glorious, but I just, you know, it's Oh, he they face and I'm gonna butcher her name. So I won't even say it. But the woman in the song, she always has, you know, have a chance to start again. And so like, for me, that's a huge thing I carry with myself and my kids and I really try to teach them daily, like we can reset the day at any moment. So that's our song, we still everyone gets happy and dances if it comes if I like put it on the car randomly. So it's definitely our song.
Jackie Leonard 38:21
I love that. I love that it's a song that your kids are on board with too. It's like a family song. So I will definitely go listen to that one. I think I know what it is, but I'll have to check. Um, the next request is you've given some really great advice so far. If you could share since we've talked about all the comments that people receive as moms from others, this is an opportunity to share some advice that I am soliciting that I would love for you to share with us and any other moms out there listening.
Kaela Kajiyama 38:55
Yeah, so actually, this came from a therapist that I work with, but I also like know her personally and as a colleague, so it's an interesting dynamic, but she used to tell me before I even knew she was a therapist, just as a friend, she would say, you know, the best most important thing we can do with our kids one of them is that we can start fresh at any time and our kids are human so not carrying on predispositions about them daily so for example, it's something I work on but it's been the the best game changer advice for example, my kid has a huge fit to go to school which is not uncommon to leave the house whatever the issue is. So in the afternoon you know there's difference between natural consequences and carrying on and I find myself sometimes carrying on like, oh, remember this morning? No, you were doing this it'd be really nice tomorrow to not do this. They don't have that so that they don't they doesn't grasp like it just it then just seems like we're always bringing up these negative things. So the advice that has been the best, like solicited advice for me is to remember that like it's always a fresh start like every hour every day You know, even if you've had a rough morning with your child know that when they wake up from their nap, like, it's a fresh start. So even if they wake up and they're in a bad mood again, it's a fresh start. If we go into everything with dragging on each thing, we just perpetuate this weird cycle. That's not fun for anyone. So I look at days as completely fresh starts, like the morning could be a total crap show. And I'm like, okay, but two o'clock to fresh start, like I'm getting them again, it's gonna be okay. And even if it's not, it's like, but it's a fresh start. So that's been a huge thing for this advice this woman gave me a few years ago, it changed things a lot for me.
Jackie Leonard 40:34
That's so good. Because I think, yeah, we naturally let things build. And if you kind of see each moment as its separate moment, you're not like, holding on to resentment or making them feel like they can't let go of, you know, having just a bad moment, like we all do. So I will take that with me. I have not heard that before. So thank you. And then the last thing I would love to hear what's something that you recently watched or read or listened to, that you loved, and would like to recommend to the rest of us?
Kaela Kajiyama 41:12
Okay, so I don't know where I recently saw it. So I can't give credit. But I think it was probably honestly when I was scrolling Instagram, but my mom actually used to do it years ago, when we were kids. If we were having a bad day, or things were really intense. She would blast music. I mean, like blast music. It's a little too much for me, sensory wise, but, and we would just dance. And I recently have started to do that again. And so I guess it was my mom years ago, but recently just started to do it again, where I saw it somewhere online and was like, Oh my gosh, right. And everyone was in a mood the other day, and I just like, put on some random music and just started dancing. Oh, my kids see me being funny. They loosen up a lot, even a teenager, even though he's like totally does not partake. But he loosens up like his mood after his looser. So that has been something recently again, I can't remember who I saw it from online, it was probably a lot of people. But my mom used to do that when we were kids. And so it really sparked that. And I was like, yes, let's do it. So I don't know if that's even like a thing or anything. But it's not something I read, but it's definitely something I saw. I was like, Okay, we can't go wrong there.
Jackie Leonard 42:18
Yeah, I'm a big fan of that. And I think it speaks to I wanted to talk about this earlier. But it's kind of brings a full circle to what you talked about with your story is this idea of at the heart of what you shared, I think you talked a lot about leading by example. And you coming to a place where you were making these decisions for yourself. And so for for this practice that you talked about, where you're being silly, you're dancing, you're getting up when you're stressed and, and moving your body, even for the teenager, that's kind of like acting like they, they are too cool for it. Somewhere in there. He's thinking like, it's like logging into his brain that he will do that. In the future, I'm convinced. So I'm a big fan of of that practice as well, I do it all. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing and opening up. So, so vulnerably on this topic. And also, again, just say thank you for the work that you do for parents in the sleep arena, because I know that it's so much more. It's so much deeper than just helping little ones sleep. It's really about helping parents just like you said, do what works for them and have more peace in their home. And I'm so glad for others to have gotten to know you in this way. How can people connect with you after listening to this episode?
Kaela Kajiyama 43:49
Well, I no longer have personal social media, but I am happy to talk about anything parenting always, not even business wise. So my Instagram is silly. My Instagram is sustainable dot sleep. And that's forever my sleep services. But again, I don't have a personal one right now. So I'm happy though, if you want to send me a message and ever want to talk about kids and you know, kids where you're having a difficult time, like I am always happy to be a safe sounding board because I think that we need support, I think it's so important. So that's where I'm at?
Jackie Leonard 44:22
Well, and I'll plug for you because any parent that I've talked to who has any sleep challenges with their little ones, I always direct them to check out your on Tuesdays you solicit questions from your community on Instagram and and answer them to the best of your ability. Since it's not like a individualized, you know, intake the way you normally do, but you do give some really great advice to parents in that capacity and, and I just know that that's such a great resource and you do it every tuesdays and so people should check that out. If they're in a position where you They could use some some input from an expert about how to approach their little one sleep. So
Kaela Kajiyama 45:08
yes, please join us there every Tuesday. We do sleep questions all day and we get some good questions to where someone else is like, wow, I was thinking about some people ask their animal questions, questions. It gets a little weird sometimes, but it's like, yeah, it's, it's fun. So, yeah, I would love to connect with anyone and Jackie, like, thank you so much for having these hard conversations. Because I think it really just, you know, dives deeper into bringing awareness that we're not alone. Everyone has their things are going through and you're likely not alone.
Jackie Leonard 45:36
That's such a good place to leave it. So I'm going to end it right there. Thank you so much, Kaela.