Navigating Dating as a Single Mom with Lindsey Jones
ABOUT THE EPISODE
Mother, entrepreneur, postpartum mental health advocate, and comedian Lindsey Jones is joining me today on the podcast. In the few years I’ve known Lindsey, I’ve found her to be such an inspiration and someone who freely shares the resources she uses to improve her life. This distinction of leading by example can empower others to do the same. Today you’ll hear her story of navigating the dating world as a single mom and the work she’s done to improve the way she sees herself, enjoy!
TOPICS DISCUSSED
Lindsey’s heart for advocating for new moms and how that started
How to know when you’re ready to start dating as a single mom
Why we tend to devalue ourselves after becoming mothers
The work that Lindsey has done to feel safe and prepared to date again
Creating a balance between expression and boundaries with your children
RESOURCES MENTIONED
THIS WEEK’S WRITING PROMPT
What fears did you have about how others might perceive you after becoming a mother? Where did those fears come from?
ABOUT LINDSEY
LINDSEY JONES is a mother, entrepreneur, postpartum mental health advocate, and comedian.
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Jackie Leonard 00:09
Hi, Lindsey, welcome to the podcast.
Lindsey Jones 00:11
Hi, thank you so much for having me, Jackie. So happy to be here.
Jackie Leonard 00:19
So to get us started, can you share a little bit about yourself? Lindsey with the listeners?
Lindsey Jones 00:23
Yes. Hi, my name is Lindsay, and I'm an entrepreneur, I have several businesses. I am a postpartum health, women's health advocate. And I think I'm a comedian. I think I'm really funny. But that's just nicely on my Instagram. And yeah, I love I love being a mother.
Jackie Leonard 00:44
Yeah, that's a great way to end it because we are going to be talking more specifically about you as a mom. And the question that that spoke to use at all the questions really kind of have a lot to do with what we're talking about today. But the question you're going to lead with is, what was a moment in your motherhood experience where you thought I didn't expect this? So can you share your story? Lindsay?
Lindsey Jones 01:11
Yeah, I would love to. And I, the one thing I didn't expect was how much I would lose my value as a woman. And this is not healthy. I just want to say that it wasn't a healthy thing that happened. But I just remember, like, when I first got pregnant, I thought, oh, nobody's ever gonna, like love me again, except for my partner. And it's just so twisted, and so not true. And then so I've spent, you know, the last my daughter's six now several years coming out of that. And then to make things worse, things didn't work out with the father of my daughter. And so I really was just like, oh my gosh, there's no way I'm ever going to find love again, with a partner. And I remember there was this one moment, there was a turning point, though, an upward turning point where I was doing this one actress is makeup, Jane Krakowski. And she was going through a similar thing. And she was a single mom, also newly single mom. And, you know, when you when I do somebody's makeup, that's one of my businesses, I get very close to them, we have these really intimate conversations. And yet, she said to me, she said, Girl, think about Halle Berry. And how many kids she's got? Think about who was the other girl that we were thinking about?
Jackie Leonard 02:40
Kate Hudson,
Lindsey Jones 02:42
think about Kate Hudson. Okay. Do you think that any man would hesitate for one second with those women? And I was like, Oh, my God, you're so right. I mean, I had confided in her, I was really embarrassing that I'm like, I honestly like don't have any, I don't have any value, you know. And but when she said that, I just kind of realized, Oh, my God, this has nothing to do with any man wanting me, this has everything to do with how I see myself. And how I see my value, right, my self worth. And from there, it's just pretty much been like an upward, you know, two steps forward one step backwards sort of climb as I delve into the dating realm. And I just kind of wanted to chat a little bit about what I've learned so far dating as a single mother. And what I've heard people say that now I can just sort of like guide them and be like, No girl, no. So I am an advocate for postpartum health and also just for women who are single, and are trying to get healthier. Usually the women are from like abusive relationships or relationships where there was addiction, all different kinds of addiction, and the women are in recovery and really trying to get better. And so dating comes hand in hand with that, right? Like as we start to recover as we start to get healthy. We're healing ourselves from these relationships, we're learning everything we can about them. And you know, the mistakes that we made to in their relationships, and we are trying to change our behaviors. A relationship if the woman so chooses is like a natural is a natural progression. And so I'm with all these women and I just really like it's like, don't don't start till you're ready. Right? And so it's like, how do you know when you're ready to start dating? and all this, like advice that I'm going to give is just like what I know from myself and my friends and just navigating this whole dating scene. Shoot, what was I saying?
Jackie Leonard 05:14
Well, I had a thought, because I know you're, you're talking, you talked about the two steps forward, one step back, and and you started with this idea that becoming a mom suddenly diminished your value. Just the act of being a mom. And, and you didn't even bring up the idea of having kids with you. You know, it wasn't like, oh, the kids are going to be a turn off. It was me, I'm going to be a turn off because I'm now on mom. And so one of the first things that I thought of that I wanted to go back to if you wanted to try to mine through and figure out where that comes from is where where do you think that thought comes from? Because it's not you're not the only one? I mean, I even know that I've wrestled with that. So where do you think that idea that your value diminishes after becoming a mom came from?
Lindsey Jones 06:11
I think it definitely comes from outside of me and culture and society. I mean, I was listening to something on YouTube, and these two dudes, and this one guy wrote in to the podcast, and these two dudes are like, you know, he's like, Hey, bro, like, I really want to take this milk out, like, what should I do? Like, what do you recommend? And then like, bro, like, MILFs need love to, you know, as if this woman because she has a child is like less than right. And so that's just like in regards to dating, right? But then also, it's, yeah, I mean, I don't really understand it. I just know that we're given these messages, right? And then we have to like, reprogram our thinking around it. And it makes me so sad. Like, as you were asking me that question. The second time, I was like, really getting kind of choked up, because it's just like, dang, you know? Like, why it's so stupid. Like, now that I am, you know, I've done all kinds of work on myself and changed those thoughts. Now, I truly believe that being a mother and having a kid is like, one of the best parts about me. Children are amazing. Yeah, they're a lot of extra work and money. But I mean, they're amazing. And I do fun stuff all the time. It's awesome. I don't know, what do you what do you think about that?
Jackie Leonard 07:47
Well, I just think it's, I mean, it's so pervasive. I, I, it came to me that I had that belief after becoming a mom, because I realized how much before becoming a mom, I had programmed myself to think I need to do this before I become a mom, because I won't be able to anymore. So if you're already going into motherhood, thinking that obviously you think it's a lesser experience, or you think that somehow you lose something, or use the ability to live in the way you want after becoming a mom. So how we already set ourselves up inadvertently to think of ourselves as less. And I think one of the first things to realize is that like you said it, it's not something that's like innate, it doesn't come from you. It's coming from probably from being very, very young, receiving messages that tell us exactly that. And I think in past episodes, people have talked about the idea of motherhood, being more unlearning than learning. And as you were talking, it reminded me of that, that you were able to go from saying, I think I have no value except for the father of my child, possibly valuing me because I had this child to saying in your introduction, that you love being a mom. And yeah, you know, obviously, we don't have enough time to talk about the entire journey that got you to that. But I'd love to kind of hear about maybe like the comparison of what dating I don't know, when you jumped back into dating, but what dating looked like, maybe when you first started and what it looks like, that has looked like for you after some of the work you've done.
Lindsey Jones 09:36
So it's a very different situation. Now. I have several businesses and I am a mother Mother and I have a lot of friends. And I support a lot of women. So I'm very busy. Right? And I think that that is very different than dating before. Right? And when you're, you know, just younger and more carefree right? So that has changed. think that that also makes me seem more unavailable and which is more attractive to these men, right? Because I'm just not available super available all the time. There's this amazing book called the rules, which is all about dating and it was written a long time ago. So like ticket with a grain of salt. But in general, I've found it to be really great. And one of the things is this, like, you know, my dates, they start and they stop on time, like a guy wants to take me out for dinner on Tuesday, yeah, great, I can do six to eight, you know, it's only a second date, I'm not going to give you a whole bunch of time. That's like, that's what I have. And so that's been really great. I also think that my intention, when I'm dating now is very different. Because I had no value before I would date just to desperately find somebody to love me and like, fill that void, right, which I've since come to fill with like a spiritual life and a connection to like a higher power. So now I'm just looking for somebody to explore like a beautiful connection with. And that's very different than before, you know, when I was looking for a hot guy with a bunch of money, who like would trigger all my life traps, and we would have all this chemistry with. Now I'm looking for somebody who's very honest and very kind, and is very interested in me, right, who's not playing a game with me. And that I'm having to chase. So it's like, once that self esteem and worth and value piece is like clicked in that the whole dating scene clicks in so much, so much easier. You know, you get it, you get that your value, you get that people want to date you instead of seeming desperate or needy. I just want to share, there's this one friend that I have that I also support. And she is like, Man, I hate this dating. It's like I'm like, you know, it's like an interview. And I was like, yeah, it is you're interviewing them. And it's like, we have to change that shift that shift in our thinking, you know, and, and also, there's a difference between, like, you know, interviewing, you know, which is what I feel like we're doing right now, where we're like learning from each other, and we're toggling back and forth. And it's great versus like an interrogation, right? Like, if you ever feel like you're being interrogated on a date, and like, that's not gonna feel good, you know, that's not a good match. And you also don't want to interrogate other people, right? So it's like, as we get healthier, we also learn to just like, relax and connect, you know, and let go of outcomes. Yeah, I just it, it's a total change in thinking that had to happen for me. And then I just want to share one little tidbit too, is that if you're thinking about getting back out there, I like to stick to just one app, because it's too overwhelming with all of them. And then you'll notice too, that like everybody is on all of them. So just stick to one. And I do a lot of wedding makeup. And so I am doing makeup on people who are meeting right online and hinge is a really good app. For dating online. A lot of people are getting married off of it. It's got a great platform. So I just wanted to share that for people who are listening to this who are single and thinking about getting back out there.
Jackie Leonard 13:28
The practical, the practical.
Lindsey Jones 13:32
Yeah, no, I know,
Jackie Leonard 13:34
I healed What do I do? How do I get out there? Yeah, it's like,
Lindsey Jones 13:37
okay, so now what, right? And then it's like, you know, obviously, time limits are good on it too. Because it can be really restrictive. So what I do is I just get on there and I'll like a whole bunch of guys until I can't like any more for that day. And then I just let it go. You know, it's like I've done the work, and then I let it go. It's not my whole life. Dating isn't my whole life. Connecting with men isn't my whole life. I have a whole life outside of that. And it's taken a long time for me to get there.
Jackie Leonard 14:00
Yeah, it seems like one thing that was a big click for me, just mentally when you were talking about the interviewer interviewee kind of perspective is like this idea that instead of focusing so much on if somebody else likes you, focusing on do you like this other person, and for me, like having that realization, like, Oh, I'm like working so hard. And this was not even just romantically it was in just friendships and other relationships with people. I'm working so hard to get this person to like me, I don't I haven't even stopped to ask myself if I like this person. And I think that's something that I don't know if it's women as a whole were like, trained to think this way. But it was just for me. I remember when I look back on past relationships, it was like, Oh, wow, I didn't even give myself that value to say like, do I like this? And I think that's huge. Here, especially with regard to any other relationships, we are and I really loved what you spoke to about, like the kind of relationship you're looking for. Because I do think there's this like, split where culturally there's like some shame. And if you're like a strong woman, you shouldn't need a relationship or like a to have a partner, like you should be fine on your own, you need to love yourself first. And I think that kind of is a disservice. Because I do think that once you start to feel good about yourself, people should want to have a romantic relationship. That's a very different relationship than, you know, the kinds that we have with our friends and family. And why should a woman be denied that or are denied admitting that they want that, you know, I think there's still a lot of shame around like, admitting that I want to be in a relationship. salutely Absolutely. And I think you spoke to that, where it's like, well, and just because I might not be 100%, who is where I want to be, you still should be able to go out and explore. So
Lindsey Jones 15:59
like, you're always worthy of love, right? You're always, always, always, always, no matter what.
Jackie Leonard 16:06
So what's some of the, quote, unquote, work or some of the things that you have done, or you still incorporate into your life that you feel, have helped you progress and grow in spite of some of the, you know, the rock bottom, so the hardships?
Lindsey Jones 16:24
So yeah, so I'm going to blow my anonymity here. And I'm going to share with everybody that I do that I do 12 Step work in Al Anon. And in a program called sly, which is Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous. So I do women's meetings only so that I don't have to be around any any men, because there could be some really sick men in there that are just triggering, right? And no judgment just triggering for me. But I am I am. I do I identify as like an anorexic, like an anorexic love person where like, I just didn't date for so long, because it was keeping me safe. And I was like working on myself. But I got to a point where it was like, girl, you know, like, you were saying, it's like, girl, you don't have to be ashamed that you like, are ready to for love, you know. And so in that in the sleigh program, I have like a dating plan as well, which has been very, very helpful. Where it's like, you know, how soon do I want to have sex with this person? How soon? Is it okay to be in the private realm? How soon will it be appropriate for them to meet my daughter? You know, these are all questions that you need to hash out before you start dating as a single parent, just to make sure that your boundaries are really clear. So you don't abandon yourself in the process. Because for some of us, we don't have any idea what a healthy relationship looks like. And so we need to be clear on what it is that we're looking for. And what will be what will be what we would be willing to accept an unacceptable we're sorry, well,
Jackie Leonard 17:51
you know what I got? Yeah, I got you.
Lindsey Jones 17:55
So yeah, so those two programs that book the rules, and then being very transparent, and getting current and honest with other people about where I'm at, in each relationship? And so yes, or no lying and hiding from other people what's happening? Yeah, and then just, you know, really focusing on myself and thinking about what's gonna make me happy. And, I mean, there's, there's so much to it, but I feel like those are good resources, you know, a dating plan, a support group. Some other single moms just support you. And if you're golden, you know, you're golden.
Jackie Leonard 18:36
Yeah. Sounds like a very like you, from what I because I know and I have seen what the different things that you're involved in, I just see that you have a well rounded. From my perspectives, life, I see that you have you know, these groups of friends that you meet with, I see you do things with your daughter, you're very active, and getting out and about and showing her things. And then date dating is just a part of that, where I can see how like you said, if you don't limit your time spent on these apps, if you really make it like a goal, versus just something you're bringing into your life that it can become all encompassing, very easily. Yes. Yeah. So I see that that's like, part of the work too, is that you really kind of have built a life for yourself that you recognize that it's something that you're you want for yourself, but it's not the thing. You have these businesses, you have these friendships, you have these relationships that exist outside of that. And I think that
Lindsey Jones 19:36
yeah, and I just want to say to like the single mom that's listening. Like, and I know this sounds cliche, but like your partner is there, she's, she's waiting for you. You know, it's like, just a matter of staying the course. You know, taking care of yourself, putting yourself out there not compromising, you know, where you're where you I mean, obviously compromise but not where you don't want to compromise, you know, be firm with what you're looking for. And then, you know, think about what you want, and then let it go. Because it's going to come to you don't dwell on it. Don't get sad, that it's it hasn't arrived yet, because it's cooking up, you know, the universe is cooking it up. So that's what I want to say.
Jackie Leonard 20:24
Yeah. I, I appreciate you being open about the supports that you've had. Because I think that I mean, I just hearing about how it offered the boundaries and the structure for you to have, you know, to go into these, and I could see how important that is. So you can kind of slowly move into it instead of just diving headfirst. And yeah, you know, I mean, especially when you're kind of in a recovery, vulnerable place to to jump in headfirst, I can imagine can just really
Lindsey Jones 21:01
well, which, like most women, I'm sorry to interrupt you, oh, no, you're fine.
Jackie Leonard 21:07
I was just saying it could be difficult, otherwise, obviously, more harmful.
Lindsey Jones 21:11
Absolutely. And that's why it's important. And honestly, most single moms have had some crazy shit happen. That's why they're single now, like, some shit went down, you know, whether it's like abuse, or just in a really sick relationship. Maybe there's some addiction going on. Maybe a lot of their own, you know, the mother's issues, which is in my case, that's what happened, they kind of all boiled up, and they have to be dealt with, right. And entering into a recovery space or community is really helpful. So I just want to encourage all the single moms out there to check that out.
Jackie Leonard 21:52
Yeah, do you have any, I don't know. If this is something that resonates for you, but I can imagine that you might have come across friends or understand where, what what might happen if you're in this space, but I imagine that somebody out there might feel like they need to do so much first before jumping in or there's this fear of jumping in, I'm not ready, I'm not ready. what's some advice like or some just, if you can relate to this or perspective that that helps you kind of feel like, I'm going to start even if I don't feel like 100%, because I can imagine that some people. And I just know, just from past experiences, you almost want to hide because you're worried that like it's too much.
Lindsey Jones 22:39
And I was like that for a really long time. And there were several factors that kind of pushed me. And to be totally transparent. One of the first factors was, you know, you start eating healthy, you start working out, like you have, boom, your sex drive is back. And, you know, getting into a relationship is a wonderful way to express that, you know. And so that's like one of the huge factors that I think will probably push women into something and it'll kind of override the fear, which is really interesting. I also think that if you are really afraid of dating, you could possibly not be ready. And that's fine, too. And you can you know, you can start just dipping your toe into it and go very slow. And you can backpedal. I mean, we've all installed the apps, uninstalled them, installed them again, uninstalled them, you know, it's fine. But I really do think that having a dating plan will make you feel safer. And you can just Google like slay dating plan, SLA dating plan, and it'll pop up. And you can just kind of go through and put, you know, write it down, write it down, like what would make me feel safe. What would what would make me feel less scared. Time constraints around the dates is really good, too. So you won't be you know, scared that you're going to be sitting there with a two hours, you know, it's like, no, no, I even set alarms on my phone too sometimes, or I gotta go. Yeah, just like some I don't know.
Jackie Leonard 24:14
No, because I mean time. Honestly, I think that a lot of times if we don't think ahead and have plans, I mean, I've been in this situation in so many different cases where you're just like, Oh, I didn't establish what I was going to do. So now it's like open to whatever somebody else suggests, and then a dating situation that I mean, a lot of things can go wrong. Yeah.
Lindsey Jones 24:38
You know, maybe later on if you're seeing the same person later on, but in the very beginning, and you're just dipping your toe in there. No, no, no.
Jackie Leonard 24:45
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Lindsey, I really appreciate you bringing this topic up because soon as you mentioned dating and motherhood, I was like, Wow, I like feel like I haven't heard a lot about this and how to mom really can candidly share. Yeah, the difficulties but also kind of the winds and, and the supports that are out there to do it and feel good about it. So I really appreciate that. Is there anything else you wanted to share? Or say before we dive into our last three questions?
Lindsey Jones 25:21
No, I think that's good.
Jackie Leonard 25:23
Yeah, I will link all these resources that you shared in the show notes. So anybody that's listening, doesn't have to like, worry about writing it down. It'll be right there for everybody. So the last three questions, questions to wrap up our talk today. The first one is, can you share a song that you feel describes your motherhood experience?
Lindsey Jones 25:50
Oh, man, wait, asked me the next one. Hold on.
Jackie Leonard 25:56
Okay, the next one, and you've spoken to, you know, sharing some advice, but do you have some solicited mom advice or a mom hack? That has been crucial to making motherhood a favorable experience for you?
Lindsey Jones 26:12
Yeah, I just like pretty much let my kid do whatever she wants. But if it's gonna make me not like her, then she's not allowed to do it. So there's a lot of freedom there, right. But I don't want my kid to be a jerk. Right. So my discernment, I feel is very sharp, where it's like, she can express herself and you know, speak her truth. But there are some boundaries that No, Mom is not going to let that go. Because I don't want to squeeze all the creativity out of my kid. I don't want to squeeze squeeze all that life out of her. I don't want to make her conform to whatever. I think you know, she should be. Oh, I just really, really am really relaxed. Like she wore her pajamas to school today. And I was like, fine girl. I mean, that's not very comfortable. But whatever. We thought about it a little bit. I'm like, whatever. And then on the ride to school, she's like, Yeah, I don't really want to wear these kind of uncomfortable and I'm like, okay, like, but it's like, I'm just letting her live her life so she can experience the consequences of her her actions. So it's a very, it's a very easy way to teach them.
Jackie Leonard 27:17
And then she can make the decision for herself when she realizes like, Oh, that's not for me. Yeah. And that was my son with footie pajamas. It was like he wanted to go out on a walk with them. And I was like, All right, like, you know, shoes fine. And then like a little while, and he's like, Oh, no, they're dirty. And I was like, yeah, yeah.
Lindsey Jones 27:34
I could have told you that but I you know, love witnessing you grow?
Jackie Leonard 27:37
Yes. Okay, let's so I'll end with the song. So can you share something you've watched? Read listen to that you really loved
Lindsey Jones 27:50
lately? Yeah, Netflix, there's that show called love. And it's all about like, addiction and like relationship addiction and just like getting healthy and getting into healthy relationships. And you know what modern love looks like. It's a show called Love on Netflix. And I just, I think it's so good. It really just kind of sums up like my whole recovery experience. And yeah, I love
Jackie Leonard 28:17
it. Yeah, that's a good one too, because it obviously very much relates to what we talked about today.
Lindsey Jones 28:23
Yeah, so somebody like is like oh, this is really resonate. Just watch the show, man. That's so good.
Jackie Leonard 28:29
I'll have to Yeah, I'm gonna write it down because I haven't heard of it. So we'll save that for later. So do you have a song now Lindsey?
Lindsey Jones 28:38
Um, I feel like I don't have a song but me and my daughter love listening to does your cat so I think I'm just gonna say like me and Harley J love to rock out with a beat. And I know you don't listen to that with your children. By the way. It's very
Jackie Leonard 29:01
what's the what's one of the songs? Well, it's just what's one of the dojo cat songs titled
Lindsey Jones 29:07
Oh, I can't even remember Oh, hold on. Let me pull up my Spotify really quickly. Don't be mad at me. I'm sorry Jackie. I didn't do my homework.
Jackie Leonard 29:16
I'm not mad. I'm not I just said we're making a full bodied playlist so I need to know a song.
Lindsey Jones 29:23
Oh my gosh, this I don't know. This is gonna be good for your playlist, man. But okay, so it's juicy by doji Cassie, by Dutch. I totally understand if you don't want to play list. I won't be
Jackie Leonard 29:40
I'll have to listen to it now.
Lindsey Jones 29:43
She keeps the juicy juicy. She eats that lunch lunch. Okay.
Jackie Leonard 29:47
All right. That it's about it reminds you you know what, this is a I know why you like that song because it's all about meal prep. Yeah,
Lindsey Jones 29:56
yeah. And body positivity. You know, just like yeah, I eat that lunch girl. Gotta keep Oh, yes, right. Mommy starving herself no mo. That's a whole nother podcast anyways. Yeah. So
Jackie Leonard 30:08
before you go, Lindsay, can you share with how people can connect with you so that they can learn more and watch all your adventures?
Lindsey Jones 30:16
Yes, I would love to connect with you on Instagram. I'm Lindsay Maureen Jones li n DSEYMAUREN, J o n e s and I post about recovery and being a mom and awesome things to do in San Diego. I post dumb stuff to where I'm just you know, being very silly and people seem to like it. So that's good. And I'm also a makeup artist So Lindsey Jones makeup calm if you want to get on my email list. And that's pretty much it.
Jackie Leonard 30:49
Yeah, I highly recommend your makeup services. I use them a number of times so I can vouch and I always enjoy getting to chat with you, Lindsey. So thank you for Jackie given your time today.
Lindsey Jones 31:02
Thank you so much, girl.