Finding Humor in the Messy Side of Motherhood on Workin’ Moms with Colleen Tirtirian

May 10

ABOUT THE EPISODE

Today we have show veteran on The Motherscope Podcast, Colleen Tirtirian. Something I love about Colleen is that she sees the humor of motherhood and really leans into that to cope with some of the harder parts of motherhood. We embrace both the humor and seriousness of motherhood into our conversation about Workin’ Moms (Reitman, 2017) to you today. We focus primarily on the first season and we had a lot to say about the origin of the show, the show’s creator, and how Workin’ Moms can be both abrasive and truthful about the messy realities of motherhood. This is one of the first shows that we’ve covered that is written and produced by all women, and I think it’s easy to see the differences. Listen in and let me know what you think!

TOPICS DISCUSSED

An update from Colleen since her last appearance on Motherscope and what Colleen and Jackie are feeling guilty of this week
Colleen’s connection to Workin’ Moms and her experience of watching it for the first time
The character(s) that Colleen most connects with and all of the different mom personalities shown throughout the series
How Workin’ Moms portrays the common mom fantasy of wanting to “check out” or “get away”, even if it’s morbid and dismantling the idea that we need an excuse to take a break
The identity crisis that many moms can experience when their children are first born
How Workin’ Moms shows the dynamic relationship between mother-daughter, especially during the pre-teen years
How humor is handled when talking about motherhood and if it ultimately helps or hurts
The division seen in motherhood and how we can work to put an end to that with grace and understanding
If Workin’ Moms is a guilty pleasure or an advocate for other moms

RESOURCES MENTIONED

WRITING PROMPT

Tell the story of one experience that you remember of early motherhood that was not funny at the time but that you can look back on now and find the humor in.

GUEST BIO

COLLEEN TIRTIRIAN is a mother, writer, editor, and New Jersey native, currently writing from her home office in Hoboken. She believes that sharing the journey of motherhood, especially taboo topics, can help to normalize the difficult moments we all feel from time to time. When she’s not writing and juggling mom-duty, Colleen enjoys playing guitar and crafting (specifically, miniatures). Some may say she’s a bit quirky, but she chooses to embrace her eccentricities and channels them into her creative endeavors.

CONNECT WITH COLLEEN

Instagram: @colleentir

Jackie Leonard 00:38
Hi, Colleen, welcome to the podcast, Jackie. So today we're talking working moms. And before we get into that, though, I want you to introduce yourself to those who are
Colleen Tirtirian 00:50
cool. Okay, so my name is Colleen. I have a mother and I'm also a writer. I have four year old twins. And I actually formerly was a teacher, I taught language arts and special education before having kids. And now I'm home with them. I do my writing, I also am going to be starting a part time teaching gig for the rest of the school year. I know we're toward the end now. But yeah, I like to stay busy. And I do like some freelance writing, of course, with mother scope, too, which I love. And I just also finished writing my first novel manuscript. So yeah, you were the
Jackie Leonard 01:37
actuations. On that, can you share a little bit about the manuscript because I know you posted about that on social media.
Colleen Tirtirian 01:43
And I was so excited to be done with it. I mean, it's Listen, now the real work actually starts. But I had this idea in my head for a long time, because I had traveled abroad in Ireland, I did a semester there. And I took a course called Irish folklore. So we learned all about fairy lore. So the book is a YA novel, and it draws on fairy lore. And this, you know, I use my travels as an inspiration for that. So I love that. I think it's a fun story. And it definitely needs a lot of work still, but I'm proud of it so far.
Jackie Leonard 02:19
Yeah, that's a big first step. I mean, I know, like you said, the work begins after you finish the manuscript. But you have to have the story down to so I think it's definitely worth celebrating. And I love obviously, people listening can't see but and you can't see but on the top of my bookshelf, I have a book of Greek mythology and Norse mythology. I can't pronounce the name, but it's a very, like, classic book, but I love like folklore and mythology and all that stuff. So cool. Sounds like a really cool, yeah. But before or after that, I meant to collect my thoughts, this will be edited out. Okay. So as I said earlier, we're talking about working moms, and a show that is very appropriate, feels very, like timely to talk about because I feel myself feeling really frazzled and frantic today after a long trip, and you do all sorts of things on top of being a mom. So before we get into talking about the show, though, let's talk about what we're feeling a little guilty of this week to get that off our chest. So do you want to do you have something on your mind? Yeah,
Colleen Tirtirian 03:36
I always have mom guilt. I mean, it's always there. It's always like a you know, it's just like a little thing that bubbles and I have think I've become more adept at kind of pushing through it and ignoring it really, but even like, it's so funny you say mom guilt, but it ends up I realize for me what I end up feeling more guilty about than leaving my kids alone, is when I asked my husband to watch them, so like if I'm gonna go to the gym or, or something. I'm like, I know he's working hard all week at his job. He's burnt out from that. I'm burnt out from parenting. And I that's where when I get a little guilty.
Jackie Leonard 04:16
Yeah, so it's like almost like valuing one over the others like energy or time.
Colleen Tirtirian 04:22
Yeah, it's like it feels a little selfish. So then I feel guilty. But I know this is where the push through comes. I know that if I don't do that thing that I'm going to be like, just a jerk all week, like I need. I need to tap out sometimes. So you know, there's some guilt but he says it's okay. So,
Jackie Leonard 04:41
yeah, I'm feeling something similar. Maybe unrelated, but it all lines with our partners, right. So the thing I feel guilty about that does relate to being a mom is we just got done doing a very long road trip. It was probably like two weeks in total. We drove down to San Diego in the family because we were not able to do that, for the holidays due to like flight cancellations at the last minute, it was crazy. But anyway, we decided to do this trip for spring break. And something that would my husband and I have done for these road trips is try to like make it a little fun doing the hotel and the road tripping. And we like play, like a board game or a card game after the kids go down. And I've always felt like it's actually a neat time for us when we do these road trips to connect. Because during regular life, that just doesn't happen as often as we'd like. And this trip, I just was just way too tired. We just did not like make time for that we had like a couple like we had some cards and a board game in the luggage and it just never got used and like I just feel a little guilty that we didn't make the I you know, he would ask me and I would just be like, Nope, sorry. And he was the one that drove pretty much the whole time. So I mean, like you said, it's like he's exhausted and I thought I can't rally man, I just can't do it. I think part of that was just like a priority thing. Like I just didn't make it a priority, because I just we just fit in so many other things. And in that short two weeks, it just didn't happen. So feel guilty about that. But on the mom front, I felt like I was very present. So I have not feeling the mom guilt is heavily this
Colleen Tirtirian 06:27
Craziest thing. It's like when you're listening to say that it's like, we feel like we have to be present and 100% for so many people, but it's literally impossible. Yeah. You just can't
Jackie Leonard 06:42
know there's not time and there's not energy. And it's like, we know that and like conceptually, and it's like I also for myself, it was like I decided I didn't want to have more than two kids because I just felt like I just couldn't energetically spread the time around already feeling like I have a big family and to think about that I expect in a day or even a week or even a month to be able to have everything be like fully met needs. Yeah. A little. That's probably where all the guilt comes from right. Now. We have constant Oh,
Colleen Tirtirian 07:21
yeah. Yeah, I think I really do. And I feel you on the two kids thing I'd like I bow down to people who choose and or who have more children than two because I am like apt out. Like two is good. Yeah.
Jackie Leonard 07:33
Yeah. And I've heard you know, to be fair, I've heard that, you know, once you it feels like you can't and you add more and all that. But for me, I was like, I just I think that's all?
Colleen Tirtirian 07:45
Yes, personal preference. Preference, right. Yeah.
Jackie Leonard 07:50
So being able to rewatch Colleen and I both re watched a couple episodes from the first season this show working moms has a total of five. Now it might have six, because I think a new one aired this, this shows from Canada. So it airs on their, you know, regular channels, and then Netflix will put on the seasons. And I think there's a new one out, but it's not on Netflix yet. Yeah, so I'm looking, I think it'll drop you know, hopefully sometime this year. But even five seasons is a lot to binge in a short period of time. So we watched a couple episodes individually, and we have thoughts and it was fun to revisit the first season. And I'm curious because it brought back memories of me rewatching it? What's your connection to this show calling? Why did you choose it to talk about and what was your experience like watching it for the first time?
Colleen Tirtirian 08:44
Well, I feel like I when I first watched this show, I realized very quickly that the dialogue, the characters have zero filter, like everything that they're thinking seems to come out of their mouths. And it's sort of like this fast moving dialog and I I remember thinking like, okay, as a person, I don't speak that way. But there was so many there were so many things dropped that I could relate to. And you know, every character had something that I was watching and going oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's I that seems familiar to me. So I felt like I sort of connected to it quickly. And of course, like the humor of it was exciting for me. But what I will say is, I think I started watching it not too long after the kids were born. Maybe they I don't remember what year it came out here but it was definitely like early ish in my you know, motherhood journey. And I guess I'm still early ish, right? Like they're four but maybe they were two, let's say, and I remember some of the scenes feeling pretty triggered like, oh, I don't think I'm ready for this yet. I Um, so that was an that was interesting because it pulled me in and then I sort of hit the brakes a little watching it at the same time.
Jackie Leonard 10:08
Um, I'm so glad you mentioned that because I feel like I had that very same reaction and arc your, your twins are for, what month were they born in? They were born in June. So there'll be fives. Yeah, my son was born in August of, I believe. 2017. Right. So working moms came out. It says the first episode was January 2017. I don't know when it was on Netflix first, but it probably was around maybe like the year after or something like that. So we were probably maybe introduced to it around the same time. And I also had a similar reaction to watching it. When I first tried to watch it, where everyone was like It kept seeing people talking about it, it sounded like something that might be fun to watch. And I watched maybe like, I don't know how much I didn't watch very much. And I just remember feeling very, like uncomfortable with some of the stuff that was being talked about, or the way it was addressed. And I didn't watch it. And then it I think it was a couple years later that I was able to like sit and enjoy it and stream it and take what works and maybe kind of not take so seriously what did it. But I thought it was interesting that you mentioned it. Yeah.
Colleen Tirtirian 11:21
Yeah, I think it was like, so many topics in there were so fresh, and it's like handled in a way that's not too serious. Even when it's a serious topic. So if it's and I guess we'll get into some specifics. But like, it just I think when it was first out Yeah, it felt like a little too. Like, oh, we need to spend more time on this or yeah, just hit me kind of weird. And I was like, Oh, I don't know. Yeah, but now when I rewatched it. You know, I rewatched the first couple of episodes, and I really like I forgot a lot of it. So it was fun to rewatch, but it hit different. Like it felt different this time. Yeah, that makes sense.
Jackie Leonard 12:06
I agree. And I don't know how much you know about the show's creator. But the star of the show who plays Kate is the woman who created the show. Her name is Katherine Reitman. And I want to just to read this blurb that I found just researching the show because it was really interesting to hear her inspiration for why she created the show and why it is the way it is. So she she says so hits us here for creator and star Catherine Reitman. Jenny, who is one of the characters her messy, selfish, self destructive spiral storyline is very real. A lot of moms all of a sudden get a tattoo, a dramatic haircut, get into ska music or make weird choices because they are trying to make sure they still have an identity outside of being a mother. She says, with two kids of her own, she knows what that's like firsthand, right men has dealt with postpartum depression and identity crisis, permanent body changes in the challenges of breastfeeding. And I thought that was like interesting that she talks about the show, she created the show because she wanted to, like highlight the mess of motherhood. And so it's like they really lean into the messy. Definitely, yeah. And and be like, Yeah, and I don't have a quote in front of me right now. But basically, she said that, you know, after becoming a mom, she her parents like her, I think her father's a famous director and her mom is somehow related in, in the film industry. So she came from a certain level of privilege and, and all that stuff. But when she says that when she became a mom, she just felt like, these topics weren't discussed. She wasn't seeing you know, postpartum, represented on, you know, the things she was watching. And she wanted to create that which often when we hear people creating these types of shows, that's the reason why right, but so she really wanted to, but to create a show that talks about these things, but I thought it was interesting that she mentioned the messiness of, you know, being a mother and the humanity around it, and just kind of the extremes that occur around that transition, I thought was really interesting.
Colleen Tirtirian 14:15
That's interesting, for sure. And I think I got that feeling through the dialogue because rewatching it I was like, Okay, some of this stuff is weird, but at the same time, your brain is so weird after you have a baby like there's no it's almost like I mean, for me, it's like this it was like this out of body experience. And like my head was in space and sometimes like, when you're watching it, you think like okay, it seems a little like I don't know I don't want to say like off but you're just like how is this so this topic so quickly introduced and moved on from and it's like that is literally the thing that comes to mind is when Frankie's in the tree and maybe we'll get into like an episode specific, but it's like they're in a tree. She falls out of the tree and Then she's like they're in a Chinese food restaurant. And it just all so moved so quickly, even though this big dramatic thing is happening. And that's, that is really how it feels.
Jackie Leonard 15:12
Yeah, there's not a lot of processing, but in life, it's like, I mean, as a mom, you think about like, if something happened to you or you know that you hear news about something, you're still back to like cleaning up, sped up, and you're still you know, having to deal with naps or run to go pick up and all this stuff. And so there isn't a lot of time for processing and, and maybe that's like the discomfort that we feel, but it is, like you said very true to real life. Things happen sometimes. And then in a split instance, you're like, Okay, well, I got to, you know, make dinner.
Colleen Tirtirian 15:41
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Jackie Leonard 15:44
So So let's dive into Oh, before that, I want to ask you, what's the character, the character that you feel like you relate with the most or that you're the most drawn to have the main either find characters?
Colleen Tirtirian 15:57
That's a tough one. So Right. So there's like Kate, who's the really, she works in the cutthroat, like, corporate world. She's like a boss, lady. And then and who's the psychologist and Frankie, who's a real estate agent? I don't know. It's a hard question to answer, but I feel like I'm like a Frankie and a Kate mixed. Because I love that like, energy of just get it done. Right? That's like sort of how I function. But then Frankie's story I actually really like related to her postpartum journey. So I was like, I feel that. Yeah, yeah, I feel like a mix.
Jackie Leonard 16:40
Interesting. I always feel really drawn to an storyline. And then I felt that again, when I rewatched, the first few episodes, she has some, she's very interesting, cuz she's like a very angry psychologist, not what you would expect of like somebody who's a therapist and all this stuff. So I that baggage, that checks. juxtaposition is interesting. But it also makes me think about how we like probably don't humanize therapists, and so like you don't think of like them having like real lives and also struggling with some of the same things. So I think that's like an interesting character. Speaking of the characters, I do want to talk a little bit more about them, because they do kind of represent certain archetypes of motherhood, right. And I think that's important for anyone who hasn't watched the show, to kind of have a feel for just the different personalities that are represented in this series. So the first character you already mentioned a little bit in her name is Kate Foster. She's the one who I think, for all intents and purposes is like the main character, even though this is an ensemble story. It is written, the creator is the actress who plays Kate Foster. She is like you said, just like a corporate woman, she's NPR she took it's mentioned in this in the, in the first season that she took a nine month maternity leave, and that she could have taken longer. But what I find interesting is when she gets back in, that's something that is ever present in the office is like that she took all this time off that she's a mommy now. And she's really fighting hard to kind of maintain her. Her status in her career, and it seems like her career is extremely important to her. And that seems to be a point of tension, but for her and her husband, because she keeps wanting to work hard. And he kind of keeps like dropping these little hints throughout the season that I saw about like, oh, you could stay home if you wanted to, or Yeah, but then he's also supportive of her career. So it's kind of like this weird, you know, thing, like where he's like, he would like her to stay home, but he's gonna support her. Well, he
Colleen Tirtirian 19:01
says it he said for too, right. But then she took that job. And he's like, You did what? You did what without talking to me first, you know that that whole, like, not she just, she really wants to maintain the status to whatever degree she can. Yeah. She's willing to just make these big, sweeping choices.
Jackie Leonard 19:24
Yeah, well, and I see like throughout that because like we I have to remind myself that these are moms that are in like the postpartum phase like their children have are I think, at the maybe toward the end, they're like getting close to turning one but they're not one years old yet. So these are moms that are like in their postpartum phase, and they're returning to work and all these things getting back into it. And I think Kate, you know, we have to recognize like she's a new mom, this is her first child. And she's, I think just really grasping to that part of our identity. So it's like more than just like work for work sake. It's like this. You know, she enjoys where it gets where she feels like who she is. And so she's like leaning so hard into it, because as you can imagine she spent like nine months with her, baby. Yeah. And, you know, that was like a very stark change for her. And like you said, because this show moves so quickly and doesn't really spend a lot of time explaining things to you, which I think is not necessarily a critique. I think sometimes it's good to just kind of move along and show you Yeah. We don't see you know, how it's been for her. We don't have her really processing a lot of what this means but she has very, like, type a Work, Work work, and that's her character. Yeah. And then and like we talked about is a therapists psychologists. She's not a psychiatrist, right? I don't think
Colleen Tirtirian 20:51
I believe she is because she prescribes meds to Frankie.
Jackie Leonard 20:55
Okay, so she's a psychiatrist. And she has also a young baby who's under one. And also has an older daughter, who is like pre teen, or like a 10 year old, somewhere around the storyline
Colleen Tirtirian 21:09
scares me. I mean, I'm terrified for one month and daughter's older.
Jackie Leonard 21:17
Right, so she's got like a, you know, big gap between children. And her daughter is very precocious. And you can imagine that maybe because of her mom like Alice's, or Alice is the daughter and like personality that, you know, she's rubbed off a little bit on her. She's very, you know, competent and saying what she wants her daughter. And so she's really kind of pushing pushing boundaries already at a young age. And her husband is also I think he seems like the most supportive of the husbands in this bunch. Well, I would be I wonder why so or why? He's got a wife and I feel like her wife Giselle is really patient with her. So I would say, I guess I would say the ones that stay together spoiler alert. But yeah, she's all really puts up with puts up as maybe not the right word, but but really endures a lot weaker. She's Yeah, she's a caretaker for Frankie and a lot of Frankie's episodes, I would say. She's right house. Yeah. Oh, thank you. But with and the other part of Anne's character is she, like we said, she's like a very kind of hostile, she really says, like, just doesn't filter even in a more hostile way. Which I've kind of find hilarious hearing the way she responds to sometimes. Yeah, when I went she went to like her kids school and they said something to her. She just like, F bomb here.
Colleen Tirtirian 23:02
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just like, the principal part. And the person was like, I'm sorry. apologizing to her. She was
Jackie Leonard 23:09
like, cusses out a child. Like she was like saying something to her daughter. And I was just like, Oh, wow. Okay. So you're very right about this show that just not having like, the characters do not have filters and how long it's crazy.
Colleen Tirtirian 23:21
Yeah.
Jackie Leonard 23:26
So and also part of her storyline is she It was previously I think, I guess this comes up in the second season, I watched like the first episode of the second season, she was previously married to another man who was like, really controlling and so now she has this husband, who she, you know, seems to call the shots in that relationship a little more than her husband. I think the Yeah, like went for a husband was very different from
Colleen Tirtirian 23:51
our first household our opposite.
Jackie Leonard 23:54
She finds out she's pregnant in the first season, and she later gets an abortion after a lot of like, consideration and, you know, finally admits that she has a lot this other baby and her husband supports her and they go in and get the abortion at the end of that season. So that's just an in a nutshell. And then Frankie, who you said, was one of the characters you identified with a lot alongside Kate is She's a real estate agents. And she had the daughter, her daughter with her wife, Giselle, we know that Frankie is the one who gave birth to this child because she's the one who well, I guess you could get I've heard you could get postpartum depression even if you aren't the birthing person, but she was the one who actually gave birth and is experiencing postpartum depression. Her and her wife have been navigating this it seems like but Frankie seems to not really I think she's just starting to realize that she might have postpartum depression when the show starts. Yeah, right. Yeah. What are some other things that you felt like with Frankie that you saw her as, like the type or like her kind of archetype as a character.
Colleen Tirtirian 25:16
So, she, she would like, everything that she was saying was almost through like laughter and a smile. And people around her, you know, they'd be at the mom meetings, and they're looking at her, like, with concern, you know, they're like, oh, my gosh, that's not, that's not right. And she goes, at one of the meetings, she she says, Oh, you know, you ever just like want to check out? And she said, like, something about I want to be in a coma for 10 days. Just, and then they go, are you sure you don't just want a vacation? She's like, Yeah, like a brain dead vacation. And so I'm like, she's like laughing about it. And they're all looking at her with concern. And I think that thread keeps coming up. Or she's, you know, she sticks her face in the pool. She's up in a tree after her medication is not working properly. And she's clearly like, screaming for help without realizing she's doing it, if that makes sense. I feel like that's sort of the vibe I got from her.
Jackie Leonard 26:21
Yeah, and I think to keep, we'll get into Jenny too, but and keeping up with like, the idea that the show is about, like messy motherhood or messy moms. You have Kate, who is like her mess or her like, it's very much that she's like, overworking. She's just like going too hard on work and like kind of neglecting other things. You have, and who is pregnant and not like wanting to be pregnant, but she's kind of like ignoring it. You see her kind of like, totally not address it. Obviously not into it. Obviously not excited about but she's like putting it off until later on in the season. So she's like the her mask is that she's like avoidant. She's not trying to acknowledge any, like, the problems. And then you have Frankie, who's the one who's like, outwardly a mess. But it's like, almost like we see her as the more messy one just because she's like, outwardly experiencing all these things. But they're all kind of spiraling in their own way. That's true. So true. Yeah. And like you said, you know, there's the mom who like is like oversharing, and maybe kind of like, making it like, not aware that it's like so concerning. But these other moms are kind of equally struggling in their own way. So So I think that's interesting that you mentioned that, yeah. And to have that, like outward representation of like, the chaos that she's feeling was really like, a lot, like a really difficult but also, I think, unnecessary character to have to have somebody think so
Colleen Tirtirian 27:53
I think it I think it normalizes that, like feeling that I think I mean, maybe we don't all have it, but I certainly did. And I actually, after having the kids, I had a surgery when I was like, sorry, my dog just came to the door. I had a surgery when the kids were a little older. And I just remember, like, being so excited to just be in a bed recovering, even though I knew I was going to be in a lot of pain. And I knew I just wanted it was like that, you know, she goes I just want like a not not like a vacation. But just like, I just want to check out for a little while. And I think that that's something that a lot of moms experience.
Jackie Leonard 28:39
I think it is a very realistic mom fantasy because I have I don't know if you've seen the movie. Bad Moms.
Colleen Tirtirian 28:50
I did. I don't remember I'm so pretty sure I thought
Jackie Leonard 28:55
the only reason I remember it is because I talked about it in one of the episodes that I've recorded and there is an exact scene where a mom talks about fantasizing and getting in a car accident and basically like not, you know, not I'm not gonna die, nothing life threatening, but I you know, I have to go to the hospital for like, a week, two weeks.
Colleen Tirtirian 29:18
So morbid. But, like, That's how desperate people are for a break.
Jackie Leonard 29:22
Right? And it's and it's this idea that, you know, we have to have an excuse.
Colleen Tirtirian 29:27
Yes. And I'd excuse Yeah, I was
Jackie Leonard 29:30
where I work. It was honestly when I was teaching, I had a period of time where I was just so like, over it or so just exhausted and wanted a break. And I had like a thought where it was like, oh, like, you know, it's just kind of correct. I mean, it's
Colleen Tirtirian 29:48
Yeah, but it is it's like the thing with my surgery. It was like I that therefore had a valid excuse to not do anything and I didn't feel guilty about it. Yeah. whereas if it was like, I just need to rest like that. That is a guilt. Yeah, feeling
Jackie Leonard 30:05
like no one will question me, somebody will take care of me. Yeah, you know, all these things that we I mean, those are the needs that we're like screaming for. And we're trying to find a solution. And obviously, there's like a line between it being concerning and being normal. But this is I mean, if I've seen it, I've heard enough people tell me that they've had these similar thoughts. I've seen it twice. And just a couple things that I've watched. So it's very much something that is more common.
Colleen Tirtirian 30:32
Yeah. Like we are not, we are not crazy.
Jackie Leonard 30:38
Yeah, there's something that's that's wrong. But it's not us. That's making us feel this. Yeah. That's a
Colleen Tirtirian 30:44
good summary of it. Yeah.
Jackie Leonard 30:45
And so the last character, her name is Jenny Matthews. And she is a mom, I think she's just returning back to work as well. After having her daughter and her husband is staying home with their daughter. She works like a job and it kind of like a support person. So she's not like in a higher up position, or like a leadership role the way that these other two characters are. And she's just very, like, whatever about going back to work. She doesn't seem very excited about it. But she also similarly doesn't feel that jazzed about being like home with her daughter either.
Colleen Tirtirian 31:26
Yeah,
Jackie Leonard 31:27
so what we're feeling now, Jenny? Yeah, I
Colleen Tirtirian 31:29
felt like she didn't like, okay, so becoming a mom is like taking on this new identity. And of course, like, that is always a big struggle. Like, what's my identity? Is it my work identity? Is it my being a mother? Is it something else? And for Jenny, it just, yeah, just sort of felt like she was sort of indifferent to her own life story. Like she just okay, like I had this baby. Now. I'm going back and there was like a disconnect there. For me watching it thinking like, I don't I don't know her. Like I don't I'm not sure what she she doesn't know what she wants. I don't think so. It was interesting to watch her go back to work. And then I think at one point, she called her husband, the nanny. She's like, Oh, yeah, at the the meeting, the mom meeting, she said, Oh, yeah, well, I forget his name. So and so it was as our nanny, I'm pretty sure he does nothing with the kid. The kid.
Jackie Leonard 32:27
Yeah. Yeah, she's very, like, just detached. And I another movie that I that I did an episode on the last daughter is about like, maternal ambivalence. And I see her as like this very ambivalent mom, like, on that, like, concerning. And whereas she does not seem to be like adjusting well, and it was really kind of, I think, when I would watch her character, sometimes her like her sections of the show, it was very uncomfortable, because I'm like, Why isn't anybody like, more concerned around her? Whereas with Frankie, her wife was like, you know, something's wrong. Like, we need to get you help, or this would be good for you. Let's try this. Like, you don't see your husband as like, her husband is struggling. And he's obviously like, taking care of the babies. So it's not necessarily on him, but you just don't see her having like a support system that's able to be like, what's going on? Like, this is not like something's Yeah, and she's
Colleen Tirtirian 33:28
not as close with the other girls, either. So that's such a good observation. That's true. She's Yeah, she's sort of just trying to navigate it, but it seems like yeah, ambivalent.
Jackie Leonard 33:41
She's, she's, she's having the biggest I would say identity crisis out of the four and that would be I guess, her mass and at the end of the session, she makes like this I don't remember what they're doing but she makes like a vision board. And it's like all stuff from college. So it's like she's having this like midlife crisis type thing where she like wants to go back to being young and my husband says like you're wearing chokers like you're doing she likes her nipple and bathroom I'd seen Oh boy. Yeah, so she just seems to be like I want to go back right like I don't want to go back to that time I didn't you know, have fun enough I want that life again, you know, so and she's you know, running up against the wall that it's like I can't and even when she's like flirting with her like she's not interested in like a lot like it doesn't seem like she was interested in having this affair but she just like wanted to go back to this like flirty fun lifestyle and she just was not able to do that. And every all these people around her reminding her that you're a mom and you're married and I think that was like just really almost like triggering her even further. Like I was like she doesn't know who she is. Yeah, without those Yes.
Colleen Tirtirian 34:58
Yeah, motherhood will do that to you. Yeah, you're like, Oh my God, wait, who am I figure this out.
Jackie Leonard 35:05
And I think the other thing that's really interesting is, this whole show is kind of framed around these moms that are in a mom and me group. And, I mean, I've done those classes and they are not like this. They're not like, you know, moms talking so openly and honestly. And obviously, with like, no filter. I remember being a new mom and going to these thinking that I would make friends in a way that wasn't really like happening, it was more just like very much about the babies. And so I think that's really another thing that's kind of fun or interesting about this show is that even the leader, the mom leader, who is her name is Bao is this older woman, but she's very eccentric and quirky, like, down to talk about all sorts of things and just obviously wants to like, just be friends, the other moms in this group. And so she's just like, a very interesting comic relief in that show.
Colleen Tirtirian 35:55
She's wacky it's so funny. She's so funny. Yeah, I like them on meetings in a way because that's where I was like, Okay, this is a show where there are no filters. They were calling out the one mom who made like, the invitation for the party, and it was like this, you know, beautiful invitation and cake. I think it was Kay. Just because like, Oh, this is a little excessive, don't you think? And you know, it's like, oh, we all thought that when we get one of those invites, excessive. Come on, you're setting the bar too high.
Jackie Leonard 36:28
Yeah. And she and that character, her name is Alicia. And she's kind of like this, you know, all I don't know if alt mom is the right word, but like just like a mom who's more like the Pinterest mom, the mom who's you know, very holistic, and all that stuff. So she kind of represents that archetype of a mom. And we don't see a lot of her. She's not like a ever present character. At least I didn't see much of her, especially in the first season. But you get the sense that she is probably struggling around like this idea of perfection, because when she's in this group, she's trying to like, maintain that she does all these things. And you could imagine probably that she's also struggling in her own way. But she's not going to admit that.
Colleen Tirtirian 37:12
For sure. I think though, as a viewer, I appreciated that we didn't get to see that side of her that it was just like this surface character because I think as a, you know, as moms like, even if we sometimes are that Pinterest mom or whatever, like we, we I don't know, I shouldn't say wait, I get like this sometimes like feeling of just wanting to just like, curse somebody out who's like that, like, oh, everything's so perfect. Like, what the hell like her character? Was that like her character? Is that mom that they just call her out? They're just like, You're being ridiculous. Cut it out.
Jackie Leonard 37:54
Yeah, she's not supposed to be like this full character. I think you're right. It's like she's kind of like this representation of all these different things that we see that just aren't real. Exactly. I would say yeah,
Colleen Tirtirian 38:07
yeah. I like that. Yeah.
Jackie Leonard 38:11
So when it speaking of like, the mom's circle, the mom and me group that they're in the first scene in the pilot is the three moms like assessing their boobs. I remember being like, Oh, wow. Like, I didn't realize that that was like, the first thing you see, when you watch the show is just them. Like, it's first, like from the neck up. And they're like talking about, you know, like, oh, you know, that looks pretty good. Or it's not too, you know, they stay pretty, whatever. And then like it pans out, and you see just like full chest. And I thought that was just such a great introduction. So like,
Colleen Tirtirian 38:49
like, you know, this is gonna be fun, you know, be messy, and you know, it's gonna be a fun ride. Like, buckle up. This is this is the show you just started watching.
Jackie Leonard 38:58
Exactly like your stuff. No, so no surprises. This is what you're gonna get kind of. Yes. Yeah. And I love that, that, especially that it's like in the middle of this, like, you know, this great library or something. Yeah. And I think they're like, they're, they're like breastfeeding at the time. Like, they're all like, you know, feeding their children. The teacher, the leader, Val is like, okay, like, we can cover so suck now. Like, that's
Colleen Tirtirian 39:22
when they're still just, they're still assessing each other's boobs. They don't look the same,
Jackie Leonard 39:27
right? You've got like a couple other moms. And they're looking like kind of horrified at them. Like, it was not everybody that was down for this. So that's like your introduction to like, these are the characters that we're going to be like, following on the show, and I thought that was really fun way to kick things off. I like that too. Were there any other like scenes or moments from the season that maybe you jot it down that you want to kind of highlight or chat about?
Colleen Tirtirian 39:54
I mean, we got to talk about the primal scream out of Kate.
Jackie Leonard 39:57
Yes, that was my other note too. Yeah, that
Colleen Tirtirian 40:02
was so the remember it very vividly from the first time I watched it and you know how I was saying before like I felt like triggered by certain things when it was so close to having my kids but I or my my babies that's so weird like switching the calling them kids and now they're not babies anymore yeah, but I remember you know any hesitation hesitation that I felt watching the show was like, Oh my gosh, you pulled me back in with that scene. Because when you have that much like pent up energy or you know the energy that you don't know what to do with it, because you're like swimming in this like sludge of uncertainty as a mom. She sees this bear in the you know, on her hike and just scream so loud to protect her baby, that she scares the bear away. And I'm like, I don't think that was just because she's a mom. I think she's a mom. And she had a million things in her head that all just came out in that one moment. And she's like, screaming at this bear and I just loved it.
Jackie Leonard 41:08
Yeah, it was like such a release. And this is after like just the end of the pilot but there was so much build up that led to the end where you had that same and we talked about keeping the one that's like work work work type a hold it all together. And to have her be the one that like, releases in this way. was really cool. I it kind of gave me this like vibe of like, you can't scare me. Like, yes. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not scared of you. Like, look at what I have to deal with. Yeah, right. Yeah, Bear.
Colleen Tirtirian 41:45
I loved it. And she like the acting in it. I mean, that was I'm not an actress or anything, but I just, it was so real. Like it felt that scream felt so real. And just it was yeah, I felt like it was a release for me watching it. Like and then oh, and then the guy some random guy through the woods walked by. He's like, are you okay? And she's like, screamed at him too. Right? I think it was like,
Jackie Leonard 42:13
she screams back at it. Like this is like a less you know, extreme but like in the similar way as she they're amped up Yeah. Yeah, and you know, to build to lead up to that St. She was basically just pushing her child in a stroller in this park and all sudden she like stumbles across a bear. Which was like a very jarring No, no, it's okay. But it's like it was also like a very like jarring scene where it's just like she just like running you see at the end of the episode and then all sudden she like is face to face with a bear and giant bear. Yeah, no, I think she knows to do is to scream at it, which probably was the best thing to do.
Colleen Tirtirian 42:50
I think that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to make yourself as big as you can and like scream and try to scare it away.
Jackie Leonard 42:56
Yeah. So I love that. I'm so glad you mentioned that was amazing. Yeah. Well, and so like all these scenes that we pointed out are all from the pilot. I feel like it was a very strong start to the show. You've got like the moms, you know, topless moms and the first scene, you've got the car crash fantasy, and you've got the bear screen at the end. Yeah. So that's like, the first episode if you haven't watched it. Yeah,
Colleen Tirtirian 43:21
I think it all was the first episode. Another one that stood out to me. This is like I think this was either even season four or five was an an Alice. They're dynamic and the entire scene with the gun in the house. Do you remember watching that part?
Jackie Leonard 43:40
I think if you keep talking about it, I'll remember it a little more. But what gun What did they
Colleen Tirtirian 43:45
all like? I remember so she I guess. And one of her patients had brought in a gun and she took it from him. And she didn't secure it in her home. And so Alice, her daughter found it and it was loaded. And she the gun went off and nobody was injured. But it was like one of those really harrowing moments where it's like, you realize that these little choices that you know, she was trying to protect this one person but she then had this firearm in her house and I think I think Anne had some sort of weird intent with it to actually I I'd have to rewatch the whole thing but
Jackie Leonard 44:24
with her ex husband now
Colleen Tirtirian 44:25
that I remember. Yeah, it was like and I just remember feeling so like, watching the scene where the gun went off and like her and reaction and just the fear of all of that is like that one hit me hard watching that. I was like, Oh my gosh, this is who I was a tough one.
Jackie Leonard 44:44
The thing that I love and I was reminded of in their relationship and an Alice her daughter is her daughter Alice acts very like mature or like as you know, it's very sassy. It's kind of one of those like Kids that you like, are kind of glad to see her yell up, because she's just like sometimes too much. Yeah, but you have these moments with her that you see that she's still a child. And I feel like they do that. Well were like, oh, okay, like, you know, she loves, she needs to be hugged, she needs like more connection with her mom or something. And it's not just like, the, the way that maybe we've seen like bratty kids represented before is just kind of like, they just need a good like yelling at and rounding. And that's like all we see, we see like, the different layers of like, where it's coming from. And so I remember like, you know, I don't remember how her daughter was acting before that, but I just remember how scared her daughter was. And like that softening of both characters that happens, like, Mom is also very hard, and very, like rough. And then her daughter kind of has a similar like, they almost mirror each other in that way. And then when they're both afraid, or whatever they like, they leaned, like they go to each other for Yeah, for. And so I think that's like it. That's why they're, their relationship is so interesting to me.
Colleen Tirtirian 46:03
Definitely, I should rewatch that one totally, was something that was like, really like after watching that. And I'm a hyper aware person. And when it comes to those things, too, so I'm like, That one stuck with me. Yeah, they did a really good job with it.
Jackie Leonard 46:21
I love what you mentioned about this idea of like the choices like these little choices that we make. And also just this idea that like, when we're focusing on helping other people, sometimes we might like, and this isn't like to, like, make us more feel more guilty as moms or whatever. But it's like, if we're, if we're worrying about everybody else, and not like about ourselves, or, you know, our kids like that, like, sometimes doing that too much is like a distraction. And I feel like yeah, she is not addressing her own needs, because Anna is going through something personally, if I remember correctly, and she's like trying to help somebody else instead of focusing on herself. So then it's like the shot, that gun goes off in your home, right? The gun goes off for her internally to realize like I need to deal with this. My kids, you know, need me to deal with this. So that I'm like more present. Yeah, yeah, that's the wake up call. Yeah, like a literal wake up call. Yeah. So there are so many scenes we can talk about. But we've already addressed a little bit about like the humor and some of the things that were a little difficult for us. And like I wanted to bring up. Like right now, it's very timely, just like this idea of comedy and what's like what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. And I do appreciate that this shows written by a mom, a woman who is like, very much writing from her own experience. And I've seen like I mentioned that the movie Bad Moms is a movie that was written by by two men. And these jokes. Sometimes when I was watching the movie felt very much like they're done at like the expensive bonds versus like, a relatable humor. Interesting. So I'm just curious, like, what your thoughts are around, like, some of the way humor is, is handled when talking about motherhood. And you've already mentioned like some of the more difficult things that they make jokes about. You want to just kind of like expand on some of those thoughts around humor. What do you think?
Colleen Tirtirian 48:26
Yeah, I mean, I? That's a good question, I think. I think because, like, when you I guess, when you contextualize the show is like, you know, the messy side of motherhood, the humor, it made sense to me, like some of it was a little bit cringy that like, I was like, Oh, I don't know. But I think as far as like the entertainment value of it, and to just be along for the ride, like I, I appreciated it because I, as an individual can be kind of, I don't want to say like sarcastic but just more like, flippant about things. And so I felt that the humor was like, I appreciated the humor in it, even though there were times where I wished that things were a little bit slow down. You literally couldn't put it all in a show, then you wouldn't have all those moments if you didn't keep it moving with the humor.
Jackie Leonard 49:25
Yeah. I I agree. I think that a lot of humor. I should have written down some jokes or something that I like, notice, but I feel like most of the humor is the moms kind of making jokes at their own expense or, or jokes about the way like society treats them or like just the reactions to situations versus like attacks amongst one another. Like I remember in the movie bad moms that I watched. There's like a lot of jokes between moms like they're calling you each other names like, and they're supposed to be friends. But I was just like, oh, this is like a little, like, a little aggressive for me. Yeah. And I mean, I love I also am a sarcastic person I love like, you know, seeing the funny side of even things that aren't so funny. I felt like that maybe felt a little undercut, sometimes and more stereotypical on this one. It was like, even the types of moms that are represented or complex, I think,
Colleen Tirtirian 50:29
definitely. And I even like, if someone's making a joke, not even like, okay, just as an example, I just remember someone in Kate's office, look there and said, Does your son call the nanny mom yet and like, obviously, not a funny joke, but she, like she had the best comebacks. Like anytime somebody tried to cut her down, she immediately had something to throw right back at them. And like, I just appreciated that so much. I thought, like, you know, she's like, there are people who would hear that and probably, you know, most people, I think, would just like, cry like I would I would stop if someone said that to me at a workplace, like, be like, Oh, my God. Well,
Jackie Leonard 51:13
I will say, so. I think that's the last joke. And that bit like there's a back and forth along amongst all of them. And it is very, like she's going toe to toe. And I think he says that at the end. And I think she starts is that when she starts crying? She thinks so.
Colleen Tirtirian 51:30
But most of the time, she's very like, right back at you. And try like, you're not going to cut me down.
Jackie Leonard 51:37
But I thought, Oh, yeah.
Colleen Tirtirian 51:40
You're right. And she started sobbing in front of them. And they're like, the all the men were like, Oh my God, wait, do you need to go home and she's like, now I'm fine.
Jackie Leonard 51:48
Oh, my God just gotten like a video of her. Right? Her little boy saying bubble. She's like, she's like, his password was bubble. He doesn't even know what a bubble is. And but I love that scene, because it shows her like really trying to learn to be part of like, what you imagine is the word culture in this environment, which is very, like, kind of like toxic masculinity. Yeah, for sure. He's like, totally down with it. And then all of a sudden, he makes a joke about her being a mom. And it's like too much for her
Colleen Tirtirian 52:21
too much across the line.
Jackie Leonard 52:25
Which I think is an interesting, you know, thing to bring up when it was like around motherhood and humor. I feel like when somebody else is bringing that, if she made that joke about herself, I feel like she'd have a different reaction, obviously. Right. But yeah, this. Yeah, this person in our workplace is saying this to her when she's already feeling split. was just like to rob but then she's like, Nope, I'm not gonna, it doesn't mean I'm gonna react and go home, which I think was what most moms would do, right? I think she's,
Colleen Tirtirian 52:58
again, she has a really thick skin as a character and like, that's amazing. That is doable.
Jackie Leonard 53:04
Yeah. I will say that the thing that I am a little like, under, like, on the fence about and I definitely feel you on what you were saying about, like the character Alicia, representing kind of like that mom that just like, makes you want to roll your eyes because they're trying to like, they're making you feel less than because of what they're doing. But I would not describe myself as like, a mom who's like, a Pinterest mom, or one who is completely like I don't even know what I would call what Alicia is represented. But I would say like, sometimes I feel defensive seeing some of those scenes where you see a mom getting like, you know, because she talks about breastfeeding her child for a few years and they're like, kind of like making fun of her for that. And there's like different things that they like kind of make fun of her for that. I'm kind of like well why is this character always the butt of the jokes like I just thought that was let's see. That's a good observation. Because I don't like I said I don't feel like I represent that like that box but I have been put in that box and times as well and I have never been like oh I'm gonna make fun of this mom for using formula or I'm gonna make fun of this mom for you know buying store bought food. But sometimes it feels
Colleen Tirtirian 54:28
lads that definitely a contentious point and right that Oh, yeah.
Jackie Leonard 54:33
often feels like the like that character on shows and stuff is always the one that they make fun of.
Colleen Tirtirian 54:39
You're right. And it's not right. You're right.
Jackie Leonard 54:42
It's what Yeah, which I get. I mean, I get it. And I felt those feelings as well for those same type of characters. But it just makes me kind of be like, like is was there a way that we could like not poke fun at other moms and still like true? Yes. So that felt like a little bit of a cheap shot. I'm in the show. But
Colleen Tirtirian 55:01
yeah, my Well, I my thought like hearing you say that I think it I see it sort of as this clap back or the answer to for a long time. And I think specifically, like, people who became mothers probably around the same time we did this whole movement of the, you know, the resurgence of like, no more hot like, you should be trying to have your baby at home and breastfeed for a year and all the things that like, sound amazing. And like, I think everybody wants what's best for their kid or for their baby, right? But like, then there was this feeling of like, Okay, now we're getting in this space where, like, Okay, we have to do it a certain way. But when it doesn't work out that way, you feel like it's your own fault. So I sort of appreciate it. And that was because I'm like, I was that mom that I thought I was going to be doing all those things. And with two babies, I was like, I'm going to do a natural birth. And I'm going to do and like some moms with twins do it and it works. But like, it didn't work. My body didn't want to do that. And I couldn't keep up with breastfeeding. Because one didn't latch and the other would all these things that I was like, Oh, my God, I'm a failure. And then a little later, I'm going Oh, my God, no, I'm not a failure. It's just, I just thought that it had to be that way. So I I see that humor as the answer to that sort of extreme. But again, then you're just continuing the divide. It's like now I think we're all trying to be like, let's, let's all be okay with each other's choices.
Jackie Leonard 56:38
Yeah, totally. I guess. And I've seen that across, like, looking back on even the way things were represented. Like in the 90s, and the 2000s. And now it's like, you see how things like swing back and forth trends wise? Yeah. And it's fairly interesting. And I, I'm curious about, you know, like you said, this, like, less of a swing and more of like, can we like balance out somewhere where there's just like, oh, we do things differently. And maybe like, in a comedy, that's not where you're going to see that? But like, I would be, like, curious to see if we can still be have fun. Like, not a, an individual's choices.
Colleen Tirtirian 57:20
Kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Jackie Leonard 57:22
Because, yeah, it's like, and I've shared before, it's like, I had home birth. And a lot of times when I see more mainstream things, the way home birth is represented is very, like, I don't know, just very different from what my own experience was. And it's like, I wasn't, you know, this, this and this, it just, it seemed to work out that way for you. Yeah. And that's how I had my baby. And even when I see it represented, it's like, I didn't do it in a pool. I didn't have like, you know, soft lights and music playing. It wasn't like that experience. But that's
Colleen Tirtirian 57:50
not only Yeah, probably, if you say, Oh, I had a home birth, people automatically want to put you into this category of a type of person. And it doesn't make it true,
Jackie Leonard 57:58
right. And I've seen the same thing happen, where I've had people who said, yeah, like, I went to the hospital, and I went, got my epidural right away, and this and that, and people have judgments about that, too. Right? Or if somebody said, you know, I decided from day one, I wasn't going to breastfeed, like, you know, somebody would probably have a reaction to that and put them in a certain box. And I just feel like, if more and more things kind of, even if it was the motherhood box, yeah, even even if it was a fantasy world, right? Even if this is not like a real world experience. But imagine if there was this thing that showed that world for us, maybe it would seem less weird. And in my experience, when I'm around moms that are talking more honestly, we don't look at each other that way. You know what I mean? It's more when we kind of like, try to do these Mommy and Me classes and, you know, project, something that's not even who we really are, that those things sometimes happen. Yeah, those judgments are made. So anyway, I just that was that's my kind of little like, quirk with the show. But I will say I, I enjoyed rewatching some of the episodes and I'll probably keep watching a little bit here and there. And I look forward to continuing to watch it and see where it goes. So it's definitely a it's fun.
Colleen Tirtirian 59:14
It's fun. And it's one of the shows where like, like, be distracted for five minutes and like check your email or something and not be like what's going on? Yeah,
Jackie Leonard 59:24
it's like a background. Yeah,
Colleen Tirtirian 59:25
I like at the end of the day. Yeah.
Jackie Leonard 59:29
Yeah, totally. So before we got I did want to do, I found a Buzzfeed quiz. So we're gonna, I'm gonna quiz you, and we're gonna find out. Which work and Mom, you're most like, I'll write it down. Do it. Okay, so the first question is, how would friends describe you? How would your friends describe you? Loyal, funny, honest, smart, ambitious. lists are flaky
Colleen Tirtirian 1:00:04
I'm gonna go flaky because I can't remember any of the other ones that you said.
Jackie Leonard 1:00:10
I know I was like six choices. A lot of choices. I wish I could show you the screen. Maybe I'll do that way. What
Colleen Tirtirian 1:00:16
was the second one?
Jackie Leonard 1:00:19
Loyal funny. Honest, smart, ambitious flaky.
Colleen Tirtirian 1:00:25
on your own. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna be honest. I'm gonna go with honest
Jackie Leonard 1:00:29
honest Okay,
Colleen Tirtirian 1:00:30
yeah flaky is a close second.
Jackie Leonard 1:00:38
Okay, honest. Okay. Pick a deadly sin. Pride. Lust. gluttony and be greed. Wrath. Sloth. Sloth. What's, what's important to you? Friendship, reputation. Love. Family. happiness, success.
Colleen Tirtirian 1:01:14
Happiness.
Jackie Leonard 1:01:17
What is your love language? Acts of Service. Giving gifts. Quality Time. Physical Touch. Words of affirmation. I do all of these
Colleen Tirtirian 1:01:32
words of affirmation.
Jackie Leonard 1:01:36
How do you get revenge on an ex? Key their car, sleep with their best friends. Sleep with their best friend. show off how happy I am with my new relationship on social media. Burn it all to the ground. sign them up for a bunch of random subscriptions. I don't get I don't get revenge. I wish them well.
Colleen Tirtirian 1:02:05
It all to the ground.
Jackie Leonard 1:02:07
We're revealing a lot. I know. I get why we do these privately now.
Colleen Tirtirian 1:02:12
Funny. Funny. Okay.
Jackie Leonard 1:02:14
Pick an occupation. philanthropist, cult leader. Professor Aris, CEO or guidance counselor, Professor. Oh. Okay. Which of these extreme scenarios do you think you'd be most likely to commit? These are kind of long, so bear with me. Okay. kidnapped. Child. Jackie. Okay, kidnap a child of friends for semi legitimate reasons. And you'll return them of course. Let your employees test out the strength of the windows in a high rise apartment building. lie to your partner about being pregnant to keep their attention. Leave your family in a new city while you run away back to the city where your friends are. Try your kids drugs. Allow your sexual partner to be breastfed by you.
Colleen Tirtirian 1:03:26
That all of them try your kids drugs.
Jackie Leonard 1:03:31
These are all things that happen on the show.
Colleen Tirtirian 1:03:34
Oh, yeah. Oh my god. All right. So
Jackie Leonard 1:03:37
the working mom that you're most like is it says Jenny, Jenny, man. Oh way. You got to
Colleen Tirtirian 1:03:47
burn it all down. She was like pretty intense. Yeah,
Jackie Leonard 1:03:50
you got Jenny, you're fun loving and bubbly. You're a free spirit that may be a little reckless at times. You're not afraid to take risks to figure out what's right for you. However, this often can be seen as you putting yourself before others, especially those you love. Okay. I would say the beginning sounds like a little. Oh, Rob.
Colleen Tirtirian 1:04:11
Don't worry. I didn't take it. As you know, serious. Yeah.
Jackie Leonard 1:04:18
If anybody else wants to take that quiz, I'll have the link in the show notes. It's kind of fun.
Colleen Tirtirian 1:04:22
That was fun. Yeah. So
Jackie Leonard 1:04:26
after all of this work in mom's talk, I really do have to give it our stamp of a rating if you will. Do you feel like the show is a mom advocate show where I would say it's a show that does mostly good to kind of represent motherhood honestly. Guilty pleasure which it does do some accurate and relatable content around motherhood and has some also problematic parts to it as well. But it's done. Mom guilt This stamp would be if it's more problematic than helpful. What would you give this show?
Colleen Tirtirian 1:05:07
That's a tough one. Because I, I think it's, I think I'm gonna go with guilty pleasure. But if you watch it with the lens of some of the things that you and I discussed, I feel like it's an advocate show, but it's not so obvious when you first watch it.
Jackie Leonard 1:05:29
Yeah, I, I think it's important to know, like what we talked about at the beginning, which was that as early moms are like newest, newer moms, that was like a hard show to so finds the, like enjoyment from, because there are some topics that they handle that are like, because of the type of show it is, or not gonna like really, like nurture the topic of like, postpartum depression, for example, like that's not this show. But it does address and like bring up things that we've that also feel like we are being seen, and that we can relate to in an honest way. So yeah, I would say I like the way you rated it, where it's like it is a guilty pleasure show, but it does have some really heavy kind of like advocacy elements where they really represent a lot of different corners of motherhood that aren't talking. Yeah. Yeah, that. All right, so Colleen, before we go, how can people connect with you after listening to this episode?
Colleen Tirtirian 1:06:25
Oh, I'm, I would say my social media drug of choice is Instagram. So it's Colleen TR, two L's and Tooheys. Colleen TR.
Jackie Leonard 1:06:40
And like Colleen shared earlier, she is a contributor for mother scope. And regularly her writing is featured on our website. So if you want to go check out some of her stories about being a mom and a mom to twins. Go to mother scope.com. And I'll link a couple of her stories in the show notes as well. Oh, I think Well, this was fun. This was fun. Yeah. Had a really good time talking about being a working mom and and what the show has to offer. So yeah, no, too. Yeah. And I encourage everybody who has not watched the show yet to check it out on Netflix.

Colleen TirtirianWorkin Moms

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