Choosing Positive Parenting with Wendy Snyder
ABOUT THE EPISODE
Today on The Motherscope Podcast I’m talking to Positive Parenting educator and family life coach, Wendy Snyder. Every time I talk to Wendy I feel held, and I hope you get to feel a bit of that today, too. We’re talking about when and why she decided to adopt Positive Parenting, how life coaching quite literally changed her life, and more. Whether you’re a soon-to-be mom or a bit of a veteran, I believe there’s something to learn from Wendy.
TOPICS DISCUSSED
What led Wendy to Positive Parenting after the birth of her second child and becoming a stay at home mother
Why it’s so important to not stay stuck in blame, but focus on togetherness instead in your motherhood journey
What Wendy did for herself outside of Positive Parenting to help her find confidence in motherhood
Cutting through the noise and unsolicited advice of parenthood to overcome insecurity
How to step into learning and the importance of knowing how to listen to your body
Wendy’s solicited advice - overcome shame and have radical self compassion
RESOURCES MENTIONED
THIS WEEK’S WRITING PROMPT
What is an area that you feel you are falling short in right now and how can you approach that with self-compassion?
ABOUT WENDY
WENDY SNYDER is a Positive Parenting educator, family life coach & advocate. She is certified in Redirecting Children's Behavior & The Joy of Parenting Program. Wendy founded her online business, Fresh Start Family, so that she could spread the message of positive parenting across the world. She is the developer of a variety of online positive parenting courses and also has a monthly membership program to further support families. Wendy helps families parent from a place of great purpose and intention by creating healthy, respectful & cooperative relationships.
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Jackie Leonard 00:03
Hi, Wendy, welcome to the podcast.
Wendy Snyder 00:06
Thank you so much for having me, Jackie. It's great to be here.
Jackie Leonard 00:10
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to people hearing your story and for myself to to hear just more about your your mom life and how it's kind of taking you on this special journey I, I always kind of gravitate and listen most to moms who have older children, since I'm a mom of a four year old and a one year old. So I'm looking forward to just learning through you today. Good. To start, can you share just a little bit about yourself before we jump in?
Wendy Snyder 00:42
Yes. So my name is Wendy. And I'm the founder of a company called Fisher family. So I'm an online course creator, I have a learning platform to help families all over the world. And really, I'm a positive parenting educator and family life coach, and I just love this stuff. It's my jam. I really just fell in love with this work about 10 years ago, when I was kind of in the pits of parenting. I'll kind of tell a little bit more about that story here in a bit too. But once I started to understand what positive parenting was, and once it really transformed my life, I just realized that I really wanted to teach it. So became an educator about seven years ago, and then became a family life coach about a few years ago. And now I just get to serve and support families in this capacity. And I just absolutely love it. And on top of that, I'm a mom of two. So I have a 11 year old and a 14 year old, which I can't believe saying that it seems so old. It's crazy. But they're 11 and 14 now and they're just my greatest teachers in life.
Jackie Leonard 01:52
Yeah, 11 and 14, so yeah, 10 years, 10 years between us in the parenting journey, but I have a I have a godson, who is oh my gosh, I like stumble on it every time he is going to be 16. And I just feel like those first few years felt slow as like an outsider. You know, somebody who's just witnessing his his life. And then I don't know, somewhere around an eight, nine year mark, it just flew by. And now I'm like, You're like an almost an adult. This is crazy. So I can imagine.
Wendy Snyder 02:28
Yeah, once you start to get into those teen years, as a parent, you're like, dang, these kids are going to just be under my roof for like, a small amount of years further. And it just starts to feel definitely, you just start to, I think almost find each day more sacred. Right? It's really interesting. It's a really interesting season. And it's it's a wonderful season for sure. A lot of parents, a lot of people fear the teenage years. They're actually wonderful. They're wonderful. They're intense. They're different. But they're they're wonderful if you've got great relationships with your kids.
Jackie Leonard 03:00
Yeah. Well, so today, you're going to share a little bit more about around the question, what's the biggest parenting the hurdle you've overcome as a mom? And what did you learn from it? And I'd love for you to take it away and share that story.
Wendy Snyder 03:15
Yes, well, thank you so much, Jackie, for holding space for me to tell this story and for providing this community in this this space for storytelling. It is so beautiful. I have told this story 1000 gazillion times and every single time it still brings up emotion in me. Just because it is it is just one of those. It just was such a pivotal time in my life. So like I had mentioned, when I started to tell you guys a little bit about myself, I found the work of positive parenting about 10 years ago, when my daughter was three and my son had just been born, I had two colicky babies, so I couldn't believe it. The second one came out and I was like, Are you serious colic again, and Stella was just embarking on the many challenges of toddlerhood and on top of that I had decided to leave my career in the action sports industry to stay home with my babies which I thought is just going to be a dream come true. I had begged my husband please please all eat tuna fish and peanut butter and jelly if we need to but can we just please make this happen I had ended up not liking the new president of the organization we were working for I was working for so it was just like I want to get out of here. So I had this dream that it was going to be like the most amazing thing we were going to be on the beach we live here in Southern California the kids were going to take these long naps and I was going to have the house clean and be have time to exercise and just all these things and so I let go of my nanny who was the most amazing nanny on the planet and said goodbye and it was a few weeks later that I was like shit. This is kicking my ass like why what is going on? And so Stella and I always from day one. I swear I joke. Not really but joke that she was She had this beautiful strong well from the day she came into the world. So her and I had a very traumatic birth things did not go very well. I had an absent birth with her. I was unconscious. Very, like just so thankful we're both alive kind of birth. And we joke that she didn't want to come out, right. She was like, No, thanks. I'm comfy. I'm sticking in here. But from the moment you could feel her she just had this strength about her. She when you held her as a baby, she was she was more firm. She was more muscular. She held her head up very young, very early, we would hold our babies friends, and they were kind of like a tub of goo, like a buttery like little butter ball. And then we don't still and she was just like, what's, what's up world. So you could feel this strength from her from a very young age. And so by the time she became a toddler, I realized once I was home with her full time, that her and I definitely butted heads a lot. And I just felt like it came to a head where I didn't know what to do any more to get her to listen. So it felt like all day long. She was in timeouts all day long. She if I said go laughs She would go right. If I said, you know, put your shoes on, she would throw up. If I said don't shake the baby. She was shaking harder. Pull the dog's tail like everything just seemed like a nightmare. She would have really intense tantrums. She was she was just in a season of real high intensity, and then the colicky baby on top of that. So I just hit rock bottom. And I if you saw me at the grocery store, you know, if you were to ask me how you doing? I probably would have been like, Yeah, I'm tired, but I'm okay. But it was all kind of BS because on the inside, I really was just like, What the hell has happened? This is not the way Parenthood was supposed to be. I don't know what to do with her. I thought something might have been wrong with her. I had her at all the doctors. Is she ADHD? Is she odd? Is she bipolar? I was watching documentaries. I even Googled like, exorcism. I was like, Babe, what if she literally is possessed. And so it was just a tough season where I became very explosive. I became very reactive. I became a yeller, which to that point, I had never yelled, I felt like I was pretty successful in life. Terry, and I fell in love very young. Got lucky in that department was able to graduate from college pretty well. But for some reason, when it came to parenting, it just brought out this stuff in me that I was like, who am I? So yelling, I was reacting. We tried everything under the sun. So finally, I got I got invited to a positive parenting class. And the minute I stepped into those doors, I could tell from what I started to learn that it was really different than what I thought I knew. And I did go into parenthood thinking that I was going to know how to handle things. I'd worked with kids. I was a springboard diving coach for a long, long time I had nanny to college, I was good with kids. Reminds me of the Saturday Night Live skit with Will Ferrell where he's eating dinner with his family. And he's like, I'm customer service. I handle customer service. He's like, so intense, and crazy about like I was I was supposed to be good with kids. And here I was just like, What the hell like nothing is working, blah, blah, blah. So as soon as they started to learn a new way, we started to see really big changes. And Stella and I started to be see really big changes in myself. And it actually started it actually went the other way. I started to see really big changes, I started to think differently, act differently, treat her differently, talk to her differently. And then she really responded beautifully. And so after a few years, I was like, Man, I gotta teach this stuff. And that's when I became an educator. But we have, we have a lot of moments. And when you ask that question is what is the biggest hurdle you've overcome as a mom? It's a few things. It's one thinking that I was alone, and that no one could ever understand how bad it was or how intense it seemed like that's one of those limiting beliefs that seems to pop up a lot for me is that I just have to do this all on my own. So that's been beautiful over the years to really bust that. And then also the one of you know, the another big hurdle has been that a lot of times I just recorded a podcast episode on this for our show the foster family show but stellar really has been my greatest teacher. And one of the reasons is because we are very very similar are now at 14. She's right out there at 14 She kind of hates to hear that. But as far as being a mirror for me, my little boys pretty much a mirror for daddy and and my Stella is pretty much a mirror for me. So one of his biggest hurdle was under to understand over the years that if I saw something happening in her that I didn't love, there was a good chance I was either modeling it, or it was something that I beat myself up about that I thought I should be different or better, or all the things. And so through all the beautiful personal development and life coaching work I've gotten to do, it's been really an amazing journey to, to realize that the apple doesn't fall far. And the more I got to love myself, and the more I spoke to myself with compassion and, and change things if I wanted to change things, but not stay stuck in blame as far as like, you're acting crazy, or you're reactive, or you're wild, or you're too strong willed. And instead just look at it as we were, we were together in the journey. And I have even more stories about that when I first realized that but that's really kind of the gist of it is once I realized that we were truly together in the journey to learn and grow like she wasn't just a little three year old. That was she needed to be fixed and mentored. And, you know, I needed to make sure I did this to raise a good kind of human will she or her and I were literally right beside each other, learning what to do with anger, learning what to do with hurt and sadness and fear, like things I had never been taught when I was young, right? Like I grew up in a home most of us did. Where it was like when you were scared or like, don't be scared. There's nothing to be scared about. Anger was like, Don't you dare be angry with me. Hurt was like get up, you're fine. You're fine. You're not even bleeding. Sad was like, Don't be sad. And, and happy, of course, was like, yes, yes, yes, be happy, be happy, be happy. But really, we all know, as you get older, all of the emotions make up the wholeness of life. So her and I started to really learn together. What do you do when you're so angry that you feel like punching your brother? Or what do you do when you're so angry that you feel like slamming a door or yelling or saying something unkind? Or what do you do when you feel hurt, and instead of hurting back, you have other choices. So we've just been on this beautiful journey over the last decade together. And now she's 14. And she's thriving in life. She's an incredible athlete. She's a beautiful friend and student and just the daughter of my dreams. And I'm just so grateful for the journey. The journey has really, I think, been one of those things that I realized over the years that it's not so much about the destination when it comes to parenting of like, having the good humans who graduate from high school, and then they go on to college, and then they get married and they behave well. And they get good grades, it's really about the journey, and finding joy, even in the highs, you know, even in the lows just as much as the highs. Because especially with the work I teach and what I'm able to what we're able to do once you kind of implement this stuff, it's there are so many beautiful things that even come out of the low moments.
Jackie Leonard 13:05
It I really, I think, because I tried to be really transparent. This podcast, I have to be honest, I don't know if you can hear but upstairs, my four year old to so many other things that you said to describe still I really fit my my oldest. He's having a little a moment with dad. And I think it's something to do with the baby that he probably shouldn't have done. And, and so so many of the things that you talked about, I was just like, you know, this is so true, especially when you talked about that feeling of like, the only one and feeling like you know, these moments. The mirror, you know, like reflecting back on you. I think for me, one of the big things that I noticed is I don't as much put this like blame on my child, but it's like, what am I doing. And so, so often through this, this platform of Mother scope that I've created, I hear all kinds of reoccurring themes of like mom guilt, and something that you shared, that I've noticed with myself, and I wonder if you can think back to when you are in this period of time, what you did, I've noticed that a lot of times when I'm seeing things sort of escalate with my child, I need to look at myself and what's been going on with me because I feel like he feeds so much off of my energy. And I noticed during that time, a lot of times I haven't been taking care of myself or I haven't had you know, been able to relax or find my own calm recently. I know you said you found this parenting class and it was a moment for you to learn about, you know, positive parenting. But was there something else that you did for yourself outside of parenting that you felt was helpful to make this you know transformation happen in your family?
Wendy Snyder 14:58
Yes, that Was it was the life coaching side of things. So and which is what I really think of is like kind of the healing you call it personal development but I fell in love with that side of things so fast so so as far as like taking care of myself back then I knew that if I if I jogged if I, you know spent time in the Word or did whatever that I, like you said, you're always going to be like a calmer, like I know for sure, like right now these days, if I'm multitasking, for example, I get so snippy. Like I'm so likely to snap at the kids because my brain is frickin stressed out like it's not functioning or if I'm tired, I'm like, very oh my gosh, I love sleep so much. i If I could sleep 10 hours a night, that's what my body wants at age 44 years old. I'm like, dang it. I used to be able to let a kid can you just deal with eight? My body's like, No, I wanted. But so I hear you right like to take care of yourself. So I did. I tried to get those things in just exercise. For me. It was like a definite back then. But I'm telling you the the life coaching healing side of things. That's what really changed everything for me. So I'll tell you one more quick story if that's okay, Jackie, to give you an example of this. So I had been studying positive parenting going to these classes, which by the way, I ended up going to the class that class at the local preschool because my kids both went there for four years, I went I went to that class like eight times. So the strategy is right, there was so much strategies like what do you do? Like what does compassionate discipline look like? What do you do when a power struggle comes? What are the steps to setting firm limits and following through with consistency, there's strategies, there's all these amazing curriculum, but then when I got invited to a life coaching course, and it was my teacher, who's become my dear friend now her name is Susie Walton, who now teaches with me is because I now teach this life coaching program at Fresh Start family. But she was my teacher at the time. And I would come in and I would say, Yeah, I just mad, I wish you could come to my house and see how gnarly This is. Because, you know, I just still it doesn't respond, or we did this. And she threw the calming kit down the stairs are 1000 stories. And she would just look at me and say, Wendy, you just got to get to freedom to be, you just got to get like and finally it turned into, you have no excuse not to be here this weekend. Unless it is your daughter's birthday. And even then, I don't even know it'll be the best gift you ever give her. And so finally, I was like, Okay, I'll come I signed up and went and hung out with Suzy for the whole weekend and did this personal development course. And just it just broke my heart like wide open and I was able to almost like I've definitely healed from a lot of stuff I didn't know I was carrying around for my own childhood. A lot of limiting beliefs, a lot of like reducing blame in my life, all these things. Beautiful. weekend course again. Now we now offer that program here at foster family and I teach it now. But I came home that weekend and the next day Stella I was nursing the baby and Stella wanted the nursing school. And I was like no you can't have it in the past I would have like tried not to like but my slowly my body would have just been tensing up. Finally, I would have just flipped out and lost it on her. Like, you know, whether threatened punish, yell, bribe, whatever. But this day after that weekend course, when I was actually able to do some healing through feeling really is what those weekend courses are like. I was able to naturally and organically just show this kid compassion and show I was able to be calm, like I had never experienced before I was able to be patient and I just I said, Hey, I'm going to walk away with a baby. I'm not okay with this, because she was freaking out when I said no, but the store went into my bedroom, I closed the door. She was banging on the door, I had the baby with me and I was just like, had never experienced such a sense of calm. And finally it was you know, felt like 50 hours, but it was probably 15 minutes, she stopped banging on the door. I was finished nursing the baby. And I came out and she was kind of doing that axe after the sob like they're just so shaken and all of a sudden it just turns into like, you see your child right? And you're like, oh my gosh, so for the first time I had always seen her as like, why are you so freaking difficult? Like just chill the fuck out? Like get just, it's nursing school. Like what is your deal? This time? I was like, Oh my God, my child like needs me she's hurting what is going on? So I finally came up to her and I was like, Honey what's going on? And she said, I'm just so mad like in her own little three and a half year old voice I'm still mad. And I was like I see that and and why something to the extent of like why are you still mad and and all she said probably was like because I'm so mad that she like repeated herself but finally was able to hear this little three and a half year old. Say to me my I'm so mad because I get so mad. And I don't know why. And I and she didn't say all this, but this is what I finally heard her saying to me, is I don't know what to do about it. But I get so mad. And I don't want to get so mad. But I do, and it feels like crap, right. And in that moment, I was just like, holy smokes, like, you were together, I know exactly how you feel. Because I'm the same way. I don't know why I get so mad. But all I know is that we are together, and we're gonna be okay. And that you and I are gonna figure this out. And it was like, the most amazing moment she just like, stopped and hugged me, and we just kind of like cried together. And from that day forward, I knew I was going to be okay. But it was what the reason why I tell that story is because you ask what do you do to take care of yourself when you're when you're in such an intense season. And that really is there was healing that happened there, there was like, That weekend course it's like, you just get to give back to yourself, you get to have time to actually feel an emotion or look at like what happens, you know, from patterns of blame in your life, and forgive yourself and forgive others and all these things that just sheds. So much like of the thick skin that we build up as human beings that doesn't help us deal with the conflict doesn't help us deal with the wild toddlers. It just usually makes us react and feel like crap later or feel like we can't do anything right or have the negative self talk or whatever it is. So that's my answer is is going and kind of getting the support is what really was the breakthrough moment for me as far as taking care of myself that then sent us down a trajectory that changed our entire life moving forward after that. So really, the positive parenting was awesome, but it's in combination with the healing and life to personal development work that really changed everything.
Jackie Leonard 22:00
Yeah, thank you for sharing that beautiful story. Crying over here, it really reminds me of I somebody gave me advice, or once or told me that she you know, repeated advice she had read or heard somewhere about. And this is all relational, right? Or, or relationships with children mirror, or the same with other relationships we have, but it was reminding me of advice she gave regarding my my spouse, my husband, and she was saying, you know, when in romantic partnerships, when there's disagreement, it helps to think of them as you know, your partner, somebody that you like, instead of somebody that you're, you know, it sounds so simple, but it's like somebody that you're like, you know, fighting with or against, or that's on the other side, and you're trying to prove your point. So I think so often, when we get in these legal battles, we think of the other person as like, the adversary, the person that we're trying to, to, you know, wear down. And I think, without realizing that we do this with our children. And that's why I think it's so beautiful. When you talk about we're on the same team, we're doing this together, it really shifts the entire way you approach how you handle a situation instead of how do I get you to do this? Or how can we do this together and get on the other side in the same place?
Wendy Snyder 23:18
Well, culture feeds us that like that. I mean, you hear it all the time, like, if I let her win, or she likes to win, or you're not going to win this, you don't know who you're messing with, like, it's a lot of winner loose, like cultural messaging that we get that if, you know, if you're trying to get to that ground where you like, share power with your kid, which is a highly effective way to teach them how to feel powerful in healthy ways. But it's it's almost viewed as like weak, right? Like, it's almost viewed as like, like you better when you got to show them who's boss. So it and then yeah, that turns into like, just conflict often makes us think like, Are we right? Are we wrong, but really like when you're in relationship with others, like you said, it really is helpful. If you can understand that they're just come, they're just going for what they want. And they have their own perspective. They're trying to get their needs met, as you know, especially kids, all human beings, but kids are just trying to get their needs met. They're trying to feel like they belong. The basic needs feel like they belong, feel powerful, feel valuable and feel unconditionally loved. Like those are basic human needs. We all have them and no matter who you're in conflict with that person on the other side is just trying to get get their needs met. In that moment with me Stella was just trying to figure out like, how to feel powerful, and how to feel like she belongs and all the things and she just felt like a mess in that moment. And I was like, me, too. Me too. But we're gonna clean this up. There was like a Katy Perry song at the time called firework and one of my students put it in a live chat thread the other day, not the captions the words other day and it was so beautiful, but I used to dance around in her room with her like after that moment I just never felt more connected like it was. If you go listen to the lyrics, that's probably what I should have. You're gonna ask me a question about a song I should have. I should have said that song. But the lyrics are just beautiful. It's something to the extent of like, Do you ever feel like a plastic bag floating through the earth like not knowing where you're going? And oh, so yeah. Being together feel so much better with your kids. But you have to get past that like beating yourself up that they're a reflection of you because I do remember being in the front, same house I live in now. And my my neighbor who's a preschool teacher, Stella was like, in the in that season where she was having fits all the time that that season. My one neighbor was trying to get me to get this book, so called Christian book that broke my heart. As a Christian. I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe this is taught, but you use like a switch, like a long plastic rod. And that's how he had broken his daughter's will. And he, so I had him in my ear, telling me and then I had my preschool teacher, neighbor, who still lives next to right next to me, she came over one day, she's like, Yeah, I had a consultation, or I had a parent teacher conference with one of my kids today. And he's a real challenge. She said, his parents, they don't they will not accept that the Apple does not fall far. And I was like, What do you like, inside? I was like, What do you mean, I just remember being so offended. And being looking at silly being like, I am nothing like her. I am not reactive. I, I like I could not see it. And it was such an offense. It was such like a. And then as time went on, I was like, Oh, I see. I see. I see. And that doesn't make me a bad person. It doesn't make me it just means I'm learning and growing just like she is. And if she's yelling, I better check myself out because I'm yelling. So anyways,
Jackie Leonard 26:57
yeah, well, you know, to feed off of that, I think, you know, you talked about you know, having to overcome that. I'm, again, because I feel like I'm in a season, a similar season, or just early motherhood of this where there is so much noise, there's so many people saying this, and that, when you're in that vulnerable place, when you're in that place where you're like, I still don't quite know what I'm doing, or I'm struggling in this area. Either, you know, people sniff that in the water or what, but I feel like we can be victim to like certain comments that get it, you know, breed insecurity. So like, you know, what, what, you know, when you give those two examples, how, how did were you able to kind of tune that down? Or how are you able to not, you know, receive that or, you know, was it just through finding that separate community with the positive parenting class and the coaching that was able to help drown that out? What, what worked for you?
Wendy Snyder 28:05
Yeah, well, back then I really was. I really was a mess. Like, I don't think I don't think I handled it. Well. You know, like, I mean, and that was deep into about one second, just going to make sure my sounds okay, cuz I have to plug in my power cord. Hopefully, it's all still good. But it was, it was I don't think I handled that well back then. Because I really was super stressed out. But then when I started to go to the when I started to get a life coach, when I started to do that work consistently, that's kind of where I found the answers. That's where I found the ability to find confidence in myself and continue the healing process because it did not happen overnight, right? Like my, my tendency to doubt myself, or feel insecure, or have low confidence, like, you know, even though I presented myself, so like, whoa, here's Wendy. It was like inside, I realized I did doubt myself. I was like, all the things. But now. So I think that's that's part of why I do what I do now. Because I mean, to see my students, we now have over 200 members from all over the world. We have over 15 countries now in our in our community program, support program called the bonfire. But just last month, we our whole topic of the month that I taught on and we focused on and we gathered every week and coached on was detachment. So it was like the idea that you've got to be rooted in your own values, your own morals, your own visions, we have lessons on visioning and our inner bonfire. But we studied it the whole month and it really comes down to like how do you get your feet firmly planted in the earth when you've got a lot of noise around you? And so it just like feels good, right? Like back then I didn't have that I I would go to the classes and that was wonderful. But I didn't have a community like what I've created now. Right? So well like if one of my students or one of my bonfire support community members, they have someone say that they get to come to coaching every Friday be like, when do you oh my gosh, I don't understand. But my pastor was just telling me that if I don't, you know, we get to, we get to practice detachment and go through the emotions and do all the things to help them stand firm in and figure out their own their own beliefs, right? Like, I'm not there to necessarily give you the answers. I'm there to like help guide you to always listen to your heart. So it becomes this practice of like, what makes my heart expand and what makes I've been like I live loved over the years to learn more about like energy and like, learn more about feeling my body, which is I'm never taught that when I was young. But every time for example, if I have to have an accounting meeting, I can feel my body. I'm like, oh, like shuts down. Still, I have a lot of feeling. Like financial numbers. Yes. But But then if I'm like, this is a silly example. But if I'm like, I'm gonna walk into free people and like, see what new hacks they have? Oh, my gosh, I like my heart expands. I'm excited. So I've really been I remember when I first heard that one of my teachers told me that well, does your heart expand? Or does it close when you hear that? And I was like, What in the literal heck are you talking about? Like, I there's no heart opening happening. But now, I'm starting to understand. And when someone says something to me like that, when I hear if someone were to like, like I've had ads before, like free webinars that I do, where someone will comment, like, about like, fighting for traditional corporal punishment, let's say when I'm like teaching a workshop on compassionate discipline, and they'll fight for it. And they'll tell me a story about how they were hit with the belt until they were 18 years old. And that's like, the way to raise a human and my entire body constricts. So it's just like a you just, that becomes a practice, right? A feeling like, Does my body constrict? Or does it open? When someone's like, Hey, you should really check this out. You know, you better get control of your kid or, or, Hey, you should check out this, this teacher, she teaches online, and she's really helpful. And she's encouraged me like, she'll give you some ideas on what you can do if you want to stop yelling, or how does your heart expanded as it closed down. But that becomes a practice, right? It's a, it's a journey. I've taken the word hard out of my language, by the way, too, That's hella hard have taken out. I've counseled all my students to take that word out. Now I just say it's a journey to develop that self confidence and and to me, that's a lot of what detachment is, it's developing the self confidence and staying rooted in who you know, you are. As a mother, as a wife, as a human being as a that kind of stuff. But that that takes a lot of work. So
Jackie Leonard 32:56